4 minutes ago, wiler said:

so from one bench you decided the 13700 is less stuttery then the 5800x3d? Ok

Actually, I've seen quite a few benchmarks this afternoon comparing the 13900k with the 5800x3D showing the 13900k beats it. Yes, there are not a lot of 13700k reviews out yet but the video I posted above seems to be a trustworthy reviewer (I've watched his other videos) and it would make sense that the 13700k wouldn't be too far off the 13900k in gaming performance. So, between his results and interpolating, I would say it's probably correct. I agree though, more benchmarks are needed but, boy oh boy, I'd be quite pleased if the results are indeed accurate.

21 minutes ago, steve310002 said:

In the video I posted above, the 13700k significantly out performs the 5800x3D in the 1% lows even though the 5800x3D has far more L3 cache. Something else appears to be helping the 13700k make MSFS less stuttery. So perhaps the 7800x3D might not be worth waiting for.

Right now, the 13700k looks like the sweet spot for MSFS (unless you have the extra cash to burn for a 13900k but for only a few fps extra).

A higher clock speed also contributes to better 1% lows so the 7000 series 3D versions will be a great around cpu for MSFS I believe. The 5800X3D is still fantastic when you consider it runs at a lot lower clock speed, runs cooler, uses less power and is paired with slower DDR4 RAM.

I’ve been using Intel from the beginning, and never even considered AMD. I’m wholly convinced by AMD now with their x3D chips. The 20 year deal with the aliens must have expired with Intel and now it’s AMD’s turn to get some sifi space tech. Either way, not upgrading anything until reviews come out. Day 1 purchases are a hard pass for me now, with all of these companies putting quantity above quality. 

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Way back when whenever you changed motherboards you had to reinstall Windows.  Is that still true?  I've always bought and held for ~6y but I'm getting a little tempted after only 2.6y since my last build. But...just recently reinstalled Win 10 and would like to not start over again if I can avoid it!

You didn't actually usually have to reinstall, you just had to follow a pre-upgrade process, but it was a major pain, so most just reinstalled. 
No, you should never have to reinstall anything anymore.

 

2 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

as hardware unboxed puts it: “The 12900K was already a bit ridiculous IMO, so I guess that makes the 13900K completely absurd” [in terms of power and thermals].

Jaytwocents is of a different opinion:

 

2 hours ago, steve310002 said:

[snip]I have been waiting ages to upgrade and don't feel like waiting until next year for the rumored 7800x3D (which might not even arrive early next year like everyone seems to be so sure about). Would AMD really think it is wise to so quickly release a new CPU that would make every other 7000 series CPU completely redundant for gaming?

If you can't/won't wait until the 7800X3D starts shipping, you could always build a new machine using a 7700 or 7800 CPU now and then just do a simple CPU upgrade when the 7800X3D starts shipping. That's what I'm currently planning to do.

23 minutes ago, Malaromane said:

If you can't/won't wait until the 7800X3D starts shipping, you could always build a new machine using a 7700 or 7800 CPU now and then just do a simple CPU upgrade when the 7800X3D starts shipping. That's what I'm currently planning to do.

Likewise. No way I am going 13900K. It’s end of line. It just means over another 2k in 2 years time! At least with the new AMD it’s just a case of upgrading the cpu for the next 2-5 years. 

2 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

It runs very hot though, and thermal throttles quickly on an all-core full load even with a high-end liquid cooler.

The power consumption and efficiency are indeed Raptor Lake's major disadvantage, Raphael's being the rather incremental gains and poor prices/value (especially the AM5 motherboards). Have to say I'm disappointed with both releases. The upcoming Raphael-X/7000X3D seems like the only worthwhile gaming CPU line-up until Granite Ridge and Arrow Lake in 2024.

2 hours ago, steve310002 said:

Charts for the 13700k and MSFS are in the video below at 10:38 -

The slide you linked to was already in the original post, which is what prompted me to comment on Raptor Lake having better minimum frame rates compared to the 5800X3D. Based on the comparisons between the 5800X3D and Raphael in the same slide, I'd say it's the DDR5 RAM making the difference, and with the 13900K sporting more cache and higher clocks, it will probably extend the advantage further.

With that in mind, I'd say that the 5800X3D and 13900K with good DDR5 are rather equal, but both of their platforms are on a dead end it seems.

Dont forget that those reviews also use DDR5-6000, with -5200 or even lower, you might easily loose 10% of FPS in MSFS (guessing). And those RAM are pretty expensive still...

2 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Likewise. No way I am going 13900K. It’s end of line. It just means over another 2k in 2 years time! At least with the new AMD it’s just a case of upgrading the cpu for the next 2-5 years. 

All of the above.

Plus, a lot of this is almost subjective and personal choice anyway. There seem to be many benchmarks and "experts" out there that will try and persuade you one way or another, but in the end you make a choice based on all sorts of things, some of which won't actually be logical anyway. My new R9 is being built at the moment. I will await the next X3D CP with interest, and I'm also keen to see how the new AMD GPUs turn out. I'd never been an AMD user until my current machine (R93950x) and I will admit that it wasn't the super-dooper solution I'd hoped it would be for MSFS. I took a chance in building it pre-MSFS release in the anticipation that MSFS would be a more modern bit of coding than it turned out to be. I would have been better served, as it turns out, with a higher clocked Intel processor, and the 3950s don't seem to oc easily (I'm not prepared to get too deep into messing with my system for that - the 59xx and the new ones are more easily manipulated by AMDs own software OC tool, which is about the level I want to play with).

So yes, the 13900 does look pretty good, but any upgrade I was going to do now involved a whole new machine, either to go AM5 or Intel, and I'm going with the one where I won't have to do that again for a few years. Every time I do this I say to myself "this should do it", but it never seems to, does it?

4 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

You didn't actually usually have to reinstall, you just had to follow a pre-upgrade process, but it was a major pain, so most just reinstalled. 
No, you should never have to reinstall anything anymore.

 

Do you have to uninstall mobo chipset drivers and all of the other drivers coming on the mobo CD?  Does this mean I can simply take my bootable storage device out and put in in a new system w/ no need to do anything beyond install mobo drivers?  Thanks 

Edited October 20, 20223 yr by Noel

Interesting hardware releases. But seems like both teams completely forgot about thermals and any sort of power efficiency at a time when energy consumption costs are going thru the roof in lieu of being at the top of the charts. So not only a new board and PS, but need some excellent custom cooling , else we will be running into a lot of thermal throttling back.   These MSFS benchmarks while good to see, is always a fairly lean situation. Lets see them run a high end aircraft into a major hub with full AI running, at higher resolutions than 1080 with all the trimmings on ultra.

17 minutes ago, Noel said:

Do you have to uninstall mobo chipset drivers and all of the other drivers coming on the mobo CD?  Does this mean I can simply take my bootable storage device out and put in in a new system w/ no need to do anything beyond install mobo drivers?  Thanks 

I normally create an image using acronis and then restore said image to the new pc for work computers. But yes then you have to mess about with drivers. 
 

Personally for a a msfs machine, and not a work one, I’d just do fresh installs. 

3 hours ago, AnkH said:

Dont forget that those reviews also use DDR5-6000, with -5200 or even lower, you might easily loose 10% of FPS in MSFS (guessing). And those RAM are pretty expensive still...

In most benchmarking I have seen (not MSFS specific), RAM speed doesn't give a linear performance increase, and tends to be fairly insignificant.  i.e. on DDR4, 3200 to 4400 giving a percent or two if you are lucky, with 3600 being the price / performance sweet spot, but not really much performance gain after 3200.  

Jay, Gamers Nexus, and Linus all came to the same conclusion when doing articles on RAM speed.  Latency of the RAM can play a bigger part, but at the moment, any decent mid range RAM is quick enough for the latest processors, and DDR5 has been a bit of a disappointment, especially for the cost of it and having to swap your motherboard also.

There is still no substitute for raw single core performance (instructions per second).  The larger cache on the latest AMD X3D chips has been a revelation though - Intel may have some catching up to do with that!

39 minutes ago, Noel said:

Do you have to uninstall mobo chipset drivers and all of the other drivers coming on the mobo CD?  Does this mean I can simply take my bootable storage device out and put in in a new system w/ no need to do anything beyond install mobo drivers?  Thanks 

No uninstalling needed usually, and it should work fine just throwing the new HW in with no change. You might want to backup just in case. Windows has HW change detection since they added in a late release of Windows 7, so it's well refined by Win 10-11 now, it just auto-recognizes the change and it will auto-install the correct basic drivers and just make you reboot. 

Edited October 20, 20223 yr by Alpine Scenery