35 minutes ago, Dave_YVR said:

 People talk about better performance from FSTraffic, but it is after all injecting no where near the same levels of traffic. 

I'm not a bellwether for how to use these sims I often am a party of one for what matters most to me.  Are you saying FST doesn't offer any control over traffic density/numbers?

TBH what matters most to me in this domain is one-click installation & performance.  I'm not very moved by way more liveries and that's because I just hardly pay attention to that element.  And cost of $30 is chump change.  Smooth AI traffic animation really matters to me, and so I do not use BATC's injection w/ FSLTL models because I find animation herky-jerky.  Does AIG have its own injection, and does FST also?

I haven't tried FS Traffic since the initial release.

The whole "spawn parked aircraft upon departure and arrival airport proximity only" method turned me off from it.

I do recall actual AI behaving much better than FSLTL though...as far as climb, cruise and decent behavior.

I gotta get around to installing it and trying it again these days.

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Are you saying FST doesn't offer any control over traffic density/numbers?

It does but it's still no where near as complete or up to date as AIG.

AIG does have it's own injector which I think is quite a bit better than FST, but if it's simple that you want then maybe FST is your way to go. Personally I'd still use FSLTL over FST as it has more airlines and liveries as well including more cargo.  

 

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Smooth AI traffic animation really matters to me, and so I do not use BATC's injection w/ FSLTL models because I find animation herky-jerky.

 I don't think it's the FSLTL models causing that. 

The best course of action MS/Asobo could take regarding the AI Aircraft Traffic failure:
1.     Completely remove all existing code related to AI Aircraft Traffic, as it appears to be fundamentally broken and beyond repair.
2.     Initiate a brand-new AI Aircraft Traffic system developed externally, and release it as a dedicated DLC.

13 hours ago, Nemo said:

After half a decade, these gaps underline a persistent neglect of AI traffic by Microsoft and Asobo. Given the slow pace of improvements so far, it’s hard to believe we’ll see the level of realism once enjoyed in former environments any time soon. Too bad.

I just don’t think it is, or has been much of a priority for them. Unfortunately AI traffic is a niche for the majority of simmers playing MSFS, and they would rather focus on other in game stuff, like career mode. 
 

There has been some fixes in Su3 which has helped Ai traffic, but still ways to go.

Edited August 22, 2025Aug 22 by pommy80

7 hours ago, pommy80 said:

I just don’t think it is, or has been much of a priority for them. Unfortunately AI traffic is a niche for the majority of simmers playing MSFS, and they would rather focus on other in game stuff, like career mode.

AI Traffic is probably a niche for the majority of MSFS users, but I would expect it to be pretty high on the scale for MSFS simmers (particularly airliner and executive jet pilots). The question is, do MS/Asobo see this as a game or a simulator?

7 hours ago, pommy80 said:

I just don’t think it is, or has been much of a priority for them. Unfortunately AI traffic is a niche for the majority of simmers playing MSFS, and they would rather focus on other in game stuff, like career mode. 
 

There has been some fixes in Su3 which has helped Ai traffic, but still ways to go.

Focusing on things like career mode, ugh, when two of the fundamentals in AI Traffic and Weather are not up to scratch.

I jumped to one of the other sims recently and it was so nice to plan for weather avoidance, deviating left and right of track around thunderstorms.

This was the norm for a sim developed 20 years ago, what happened?

54 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

The question is, do MS/Asobo see this as a game or a simulator?

What's the difference exactly? I would guess that 90% of users are like me. I use the sim for entertainment. Do you expect Asobo to ignore 90% of its customer base and, therefore, 90% of its revenue?

Edited August 23, 2025Aug 23 by jarmstro

8 hours ago, pommy80 said:

I just don’t think it is, or has been much of a priority for them. Unfortunately AI traffic is a niche for the majority of simmers playing MSFS, and they would rather focus on other in game stuff, like career mode. 
 

There has been some fixes in Su3 which has helped Ai traffic, but still ways to go.

So are flight dynamics.

What's not niche is a whole bunch of default aircraft. Not bad in itself but seem to get constant attention for something that doesn't aim too high in the first place.

Before the release of MSFS 2024, there were rumors of AIG being "consulted"  on a possible implementation- involvement in the new sim, I wonder if this was vaporware or reality, and, if the latter, whether this is still a project or was abandoned? Could @Kaiii3 comment on that or is it not for public consumption? 

As a dedicated user of AIG I would certainly welcome such a move.

Edited August 23, 2025Aug 23 by Bernard Ducret

It is impressive the level of amateurism at Asobo regarding AI traffic. Especially because there are plenty of threads naming the most prominent issues yet they manage to bring regressions into almost every update. 

And if you write things like they obviously lack a QA deserving the name of it, some yaysayers will lecture about it and accuse us to not be happy for what we get. 

This AI traffic thing in MSFS and now in MSFS2024 is an absolute disaster and uttermost embarassing for them and they simply dont see it. Instead, the evergrinning fullhonk gives interviews about what useless feature will come next and that they are listening. Ridiculous.

3 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

The question is, do MS/Asobo see this as a game or a simulator?

I don't think they care about labels. It's an incoming revenue stream and gateway to pull a new market into Game Pass subscriptions for Microsoft. Possibly PS Plus /Premium too in the future hence console stability and performance updates. 

It would be incredibly naive for any 'hardcore simmer' to assume realism is ever going to be important for anything other than a product trailer boast (flex in modern speak). There is just enough of it to keep simmers on board but the major selling point has and always will be the 'view out the window' and how smooth it appears. 

Realistic scenery is not a BAD goal at all, we used to chase it in previous sims too by throwing a lot of money on addons but it wasn't the core philosophy of the software that it clearly has been for 5 years now. 

15 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

So, BATC solves the problem of AI planes jumping off the ground before rotating? Landing without flaring? Stepping up and down slopes unrealistically? Landing on whatever runway they like? If that is the case, then I need to investigate further.

Partially. Some of the issues are resolved like which runway they land on, and they flare when they land, but before that they are pretty much nose down on approach instead of correctly configured. And sometimes they have an odd way of not seeming to know at which height the runway really is. Probably a scenery problem.

9 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

The question is, do MS/Asobo see this as a game or a simulator?

It's not either/or, it's both, of course.  It's a game in the genre of simulation.

9 hours ago, Bernard Ducret said:

Before the release of MSFS 2024, there were rumors of AIG being "consulted"  on a possible implementation- involvement in the new sim, I wonder if this was vaporware or reality, and, if the latter, whether this is still a project or was abandoned? Could @Kaiii3 comment on that or is it not for public consumption? 

As a dedicated user of AIG I would certainly welcome such a move.

Regarding any public information I suggest to watch the FSExpo Video from 2024. Jörg showed there some 3rd party involvment 😉