1 hour ago, turbomax said:

60 fps at the currently most complex airports, weather depiction, traffic, complex aircraft?

That is a very big jump from the current common "high end PC" which this has not been possible to do until now with the 4090 and a suitable CPU.  These are probably facts we can agree on.  The jump is big, because prior to now, it's been maybe a maximum of 40 or something like at the most complex airports/cities in the most complex aircraft.  

What could 3090 paired w/ 5900x3D or 12900K do when T-LOD is at say 400 and all else is fully maxed in PMDG 737 series at FT's KLAS? or wherever?  Chime in if you know as I don't have this hardware and for me it's really pretty much T-LOD of 100 in that scenario and I will barely be able to sustain the 30FPS by vsync.  My 3080Ti competes favorably w/ 3090, so it's down to CPU in this scenario.  Benchmarks show 12900K as about 25+% faster in single-thread over my 9900K when overclocked to their predicted stable maximums.  This suggests to me I might see close to 40FPS sustainable in the above described scenario.

These are objective ideas, whereas "smoothness" is especially subjective, and "freedom from stutters" is somewhere in between depending on how carefully one scrutinizes.  Because smoothness has such a large subjective aspect to it, and because human sensory and perceptual idiosyncracies are so variable amongst individuals, it's reasonable to consider 30 FPS, or 40 FPS, or 60 FPS indeed fits all criteria for that individual, whereas not for another individual.  

When you look at how 4090 apparently creates an intermediate image between one frame and the next, and has the GPU send it perfectly between the two.  This synthetic image gives the appearance, and I dare say may be fundamentally indistinquishable from CPU-generated frames, of double the frame rate.   To get to 120, you have to be able to do 60, presumably.

Human perception is able to fill in frames in much the same way.  We view motion pictures with an actual frame rate of 24 and they still look decent and not choppy to our perception.  Our brains operate as analogue at the resolultion of our macro reality so and are capable of filling in fully between actual rendered frames on a screen.  This capability may be why some will see 30fps as smooth, while others don't.  We really don't know as we are in a realm that is very difficult to validate, like other "subjective" realms.  So "30 or 60 isn't smooth", really needs to be stated as, "for me, 30 or 60 is not smooth".  That's fair and a subjective comment.

I'm sorry guys I just can't imagine taking something like what Cpt Piett is doing which looks like taking essentially 1 y/o high end hardware and binning it for this year's offering.  I just can't relate to it personally, so expressed my reaction to it.  But I do appreciate the DLSS3 is compelling if indeed it gets you fully functional in the most complex scenarios at a high frame rate, and doesn't contribute to blurring or loss of clarity.   Clarity is always an ultra high criteria to try to meet..  Hopefully 3000 series GPUs will get some portion of benefit from it.

 

What I don’t understand: my 12900K is always running at 5.0-5.3 GHz but shows max 36% taxed on the main thread core while others are taxed 17-32%….
 

So if the 12900K is not even running under more load why would the 13900K give 10-15% more fps ?

Is MSFS programmed that the main thread core is having a lousy life instead of being used more and give a higher franerate ?

7 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Perhaps. For the longest time I had my fps locked to 30 and was a happy camper. Then I upgraded my hardware and realized I could get 50-60 (except at the usual places). Which IS considerably more smooth and fluid with G-Sync. Most noticeable when panning or flying fast and low. I think the era of 30 fps in flight sims is slowly ebbing out. 

What is Hz of your monitor I'm 4k and thinking about going 144 hz

22 minutes ago, GSalden said:

What I don’t understand: my 12900K is always running at 5.0-5.3 GHz but shows max 36% taxed on the main thread core while others are taxed 17-32%….
 

So if the 12900K is not even running under more load why would the 13900K give 10-15% more fps ?

Is MSFS programmed that the main thread core is having a lousy life instead of being used more and give a higher franerate ?

Are you GPU bound at the moment? I see similar thread usage on my AMD 7900x combined with 3090. And I'm GPU bound, means a quicker cpu would not bring me more fps. 

I think the answer to your question is no. You won't geht higher fps when your cpu is heaving headroom and your gpu is maxed out. 

On my gpu I see 98% usage (when using VR and also when using 2d). 

So I think Msfs is well optimised using GPU with DX12. 

17 minutes ago, Jetman67 said:

What is Hz of your monitor I'm 4k and thinking about going 144 hz

It's 120Hz.

29 minutes ago, GSalden said:

What I don’t understand: my 12900K is always running at 5.0-5.3 GHz but shows max 36% taxed on the main thread core while others are taxed 17-32%….

I'm getting up to 100% at times on my 12900KF @ 5.1GHz in DX12. 

32 minutes ago, GSalden said:

What I don’t understand: my 12900K is always running at 5.0-5.3 GHz but shows max 36% taxed on the main thread core while others are taxed 17-32%….

You have to monitor your GPU: if the GPU load is significantly below 90%, you ARE in a CPU limited scenario, no matter those load percentages tell you. If your GPU is constantly above 90%, you are mostly in a GPU limited scenario.

Yes, it is really that easy. Why people still try to figure out a CPU load by checking the percentages of each core is beyond me, with todays multicore CPUs and the thread shuffling, you will never be able to really estimate the CPU load by just looking on those loads, they are updated waaay to less frequent. Unless of course the main thread is hammered like hell (which is not the case in your situation), but then the stutters are already so bad you wont second guess a CPU limit anyway 😉 

7 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I'm getting up to 100% at times on my 12900KF @ 5.1GHz in DX12. 

Using DX12 here too.

Two SU ago was the last time I checked and the cpu most of the time reached 5.3 GHz in heavy situations.

Just tested at EHAM Schiphol with lots of Live AI ac and bad weather. Sliders to the right. View : 2x 4K front view.

Framerate down to 31 ( Vsync off ) and max load of the main thread core just 37%…
All P cores running at 5 GHz.

Just for testing : if I save the usercfg.opt will MSFS build a new one with its recommended settings ?

After the release of SU10 were I was in the beta the pc downloaded almost everything again. Even while I did opt out of the beta before the official release. So I am curious what MSFS advises on settings .

Edited October 24, 20223 yr by GSalden

4 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Framerate down to 31 ( Vsync off ) and max load of the main thread core just 37%…

How did your CPU and GPU frame times look in dev mode?

6 minutes ago, AnkH said:

You have to monitor your GPU: if the GPU load is significantly below 90%, you ARE in a CPU limited scenario, no matter those load percentages tell you. If your GPU is constantly above 90%, you are mostly in a GPU limited scenario.

Yes, it is really that easy. Why people still try to figure out a CPU load by checking the percentages of each core is beyond me, with todays multicore CPUs and the thread shuffling, you will never be able to really estimate the CPU load by just looking on those loads, they are updated waaay to less frequent. Unless of course the main thread is hammered like hell (which is not the case in your situation), but then the stutters are already so bad you wont second guess a CPU limit anyway 😉 

Thanks for pointing this out as I did balance gpu and cpu that the bottleneck message is continuously switching between cpu and gpu ..

8 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Thanks for pointing this out as I did balance gpu and cpu that the bottleneck message is continuously switching between cpu and gpu ..

Same for me, actually I increased my settings as such as that I end up in a GPU limited scenario almost 90% of the case (except big hubs and photogrammetry cities), it is simply more smooth like this. But if you have balanced your settings, you are anyway totally fine, no? It could still be then, that if you crank up those CPU heavy stuff again, you might tend again more towards a CPU limited scenario and in those, a new raptor lake CPU would do some good. But to me, this would be an entire waste of money 😉 

With auto settings MSFS put everything on Ultra , both LOD at 200 and DX12. 4K and TAA.

Amsterdam Schiphol (EHAM) standing on rw 24 then turned the ac a bit to the right to see more from the buildings.

Edited October 24, 20223 yr by GSalden

Here all Ultra and 2 screens :

 

When switching from TAA to DLSS Balanced :

 

Clouds to High and both LOD to 170. All textures to High. DLSS to Quality :

 

 

Edited October 24, 20223 yr by GSalden

Out of fun I took the plunge and ordered a 13600K together with an older Z690 Mainboard that can be used with my DDR4 RAM. I now am utterly curious how this "small" i5 will compete with my current 8700K in CPU heavy scenarios.

8 hours ago, GSalden said:

With auto settings MSFS put everything on Ultra , both LOD at 200 and DX12. 4K and TAA.

Amsterdam Schiphol (EHAM) standing on rw 24 then turned the ac a bit to the right to see more from the buildings.

I had a look through the images and in the first picture you're GPU-limited so I would not expect the CPU to work that hard. With DLSS on the CPU&GPU seem more balanced. For me the low CPU usage sort of makes sense but I'd like to hear what others think as well. 

I'm most of the time CPU-limited, and like I said with DX12 the CPU usage is very high.