10 hours ago, jcomm said:

flight dynamics wise XP is still way ahead, way way way... The rest is Kindergarten ...

I would have to say this is a grossly exaggerated statement to be honest.

You can fly the PMDG and then move over to the Zibo and you will not be blow away by a difference in flight dynamics. I think NG 737 said he was expecting more also in first video.  Even with Fenix/FBW and Toliss, you will not be blown away by flight model differences. Of course, there are differences, and most people give xplane the edge but not the large gap you speak of. And "The rest is Kindergarten ..."?  MSFS aside, let's not even forget about P3D which is also used professionally for training. 

I've watched tons of review videos comparing both MSFS and xplane from many real-world pilots. These comparisons are starting to be less and less of value. At this point in time, I believe the consensus is that these 2 sims are not far apart. Unlike when MSFS first came.  Even with something like the C172, you'll get differing opinions on which is better from real world pilots. Just another testament to how close the simulators are.  

In conclusion, xplane has the edge in flight model, but it's not so significant and the gap will get even smaller after 2024 in my opinion. I would suggest Laminar not stand still on this fact. But as NG 737 and many others have stated, these are home simulators, and should be used as such. Great to learn procedures, but you will not get the feel of flying the real thing sitting at home with your Logitech controller. 

58 minutes ago, brinx said:

I think NG 737 said he was expecting more also in first video.

 https://youtu.be/a6FzWbUHgd0?t=1271
".. the question is how much superior. If I'm totally honest, seeing all comments I got previously before I installed X-Plane, I expected a little bit more. So I honestly have to say I didn't find the difference to be too much, there is a noteable difference, it can be felt that X-Plane FM is a bit more spot on, but overall the flight models aren't so much apart ..."

 

59 minutes ago, brinx said:

In conclusion, xplane has the edge in flight model, but it's not so significant and the gap will get even smaller after 2024 in my opinion.

There's also a chance that 2024 will even create a gap in its favor since it is already showing that it is capable of simulating physics that XP12 isn't able to do in its current state.

14 minutes ago, Krakin said:

physics that XP12 isn't able to do i

Like what.

7 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

Like what.

Soft tissue physics as seen in objects like ropes and a highly accurate simulation of hot air balloon inflation and deflation powered by the CFD and increased "surface" granularity.

36 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Soft tissue physics as seen in objects like ropes and a highly accurate simulation of hot air balloon inflation and deflation powered by the CFD and increased "surface" granularity.

XP has had both for over a decade. hardly anyone was that interested then, I doubt they are now.

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/54524-x-plane-and-balloons/

huh, looking at chuck bodeen's content, he did balloons and missions... wonder if that's a coincidence.

MSFS2026:All new first in flightsim, for the first time ever you can fly on Mars... rofl

about all that you see of that these days is the yawstring (on the window next to the compass if you dont know where they are)

 

Edited August 8, 20232 yr by mSparks

1 hour ago, Krakin said:

Soft tissue physics as seen in objects like ropes and a highly accurate simulation of hot air balloon inflation and deflation powered by the CFD and increased "surface" granularity.

Oh so nothing important, though if you look the Aircraft carrier, the new one has working arrestor wires. Next thing you be telling us is bee's and flies are not simulated and you need them to be squished on the window.

Is this thw sort of desperation people are going to, to continually fault xplane, anyone would think the robbed a bank.

Edited August 8, 20232 yr by mjrhealth

4 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

Oh so nothing important, though if you look the Aircraft carrier, the new one has working arrestor wires. Next thing you be telling us is bee's and flies are not simulated and you need them to be squished on the window.

Is this thw sort of desperation people are going to, to continually fault xplane, anyone would think the robbed a bank.

If you think the strides made to make the balloon demo possible is not going to translate to fixed wing physics then I have to say that you're the one who is desperate smh

4 hours ago, Krakin said:

I will say whatever I want as long as it does not violate the rules of the site. Jcomm is free to do the same. Also, you are NOT one to talk. When Goran tried to shut someone up in a far worse manner, I caught you upvotig his attempt at justifying what he did. As I said before, very selective.

 

Perhaps you can take the advice Goran gave me

You liked this one too smh.

Bro, is that all you got? A respected developer speaking from a position of 1st hand expertise, with supporting statements, and that I agreed with him is problematic for you? 
 

Weak sauce!, bro. VERY weak. 

2 hours ago, Krakin said:

not going to translate to fixed wing physics

Like what, wing warping, wing flex, pretty sure thats both covered in xplane

6 hours ago, brinx said:

I would have to say this is a grossly exaggerated statement to be honest.

You can fly the PMDG and then move over to the Zibo and you will not be blow away by a difference in flight dynamics. I think NG 737 said he was expecting more also in first video.  Even with Fenix/FBW and Toliss, you will not be blown away by flight model differences. Of course, there are differences, and most people give xplane the edge but not the large gap you speak of. And "The rest is Kindergarten ..."?  MSFS aside, let's not even forget about P3D which is also used professionally for training. 

I've watched tons of review videos comparing both MSFS and xplane from many real-world pilots. These comparisons are starting to be less and less of value. At this point in time, I believe the consensus is that these 2 sims are not far apart. Unlike when MSFS first came.  Even with something like the C172, you'll get differing opinions on which is better from real world pilots. Just another testament to how close the simulators are.  

In conclusion, xplane has the edge in flight model, but it's not so significant and the gap will get even smaller after 2024 in my opinion. I would suggest Laminar not stand still on this fact. But as NG 737 and many others have stated, these are home simulators, and should be used as such. Great to learn procedures, but you will not get the feel of flying the real thing sitting at home with your Logitech controller. 

I basically agree... But this is my X-Plane week... 🤪

Well, and not only, OFC... 😁

I do believe (and hope) 2024 can bring good news too. But there are various aspects that make modelling in XP different, like details such as the multiple wings / tails / asymmetries that can be directly modelled in XP and not in MFS. 

These are all details that aren't probably important for a desktop flight simulator, as you pointed out and I fully agree, specially if used from a strictly procedural POV, as a tool to learn or practice some aspects of aircraft operations. In that aspect MFS is surely not behind XP, and I would actually put it ahead since it offers by default additional functionality, that being one of the reasons I use MFS a lot more than I use XP12 these days...

OTOH XP brings more options by default regarding,  for instance, failures modelling and even weather. In XP you have a worth of failures in various aircraft systems, which are really cool to have in order to replicate emergencies / non-normal operations. In XP you can set geopotential height effects with custom weather instead of just when using real world weather injection. OFC 737 NG didn't even refer to these aspects. 

In MFS I use most of the time the PMDG 737, sometimes the Fenix, at least until v2 rolls out. For the kind of simulation of airline operations they provide, surely it is not that BIG of a difference, and that was an hyperbole when I wrote those exclamations above 😉

 

 

Edited August 8, 20232 yr by jcomm

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

But there are various aspects that make modelling in XP different, like details such as the multiple wings / tails / asymmetries that can be directly modelled in XP and not in MFS. 

You'll be happy to know that Seb already confirmed that these will feature in 2024

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

MSFS2026:All new first in flightsim, for the first time ever you can fly on Mars... rofl

 

Thats really bad jibe to make!

I was an early adopter of Xplane, and back in the day with either XP5 or XP6, there were some major bugs, that went untouched for at least 6 or 9 months, and Austin was missing in action.

Why? Because he had just obtained data for the surface of Mars and thought it was way cooler to build a Mars surface to fly around in XPlane instead of fixing some really annoying bugs.

It was at this point that I decided to ditch  Xplane, because it was evident that bug fixes/improvements etc were the sole discretion of one guy and what peaked his interest at that time.

It wasnt until many years later when more people eventually got involved with assisting Austin, that I gained interest again.

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

about all that you see of that these days is the yawstring (on the window next to the compass if you dont know where they are)

Maybe next time show an example of what I was actually talking about

Step right up everybody! See the amazing X-Plane rope physics that act more like Goku's power pole than an actual rope!

Also, that article you posted was a good read but a complete waste of time in the context of what we're talking about. Stop trying to fool me. X-Plane is incapable of reproducing the demo Seb showed. Give it up, Sparky

33 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

"very high resolution" CFD airflows

I've hunted a bit for this statement with no luck. Reference?

 

Edited August 9, 20232 yr by blingthinger

15 hours ago, Krakin said:

Maybe next time show an example of what I was actually talking about

Step right up everybody! See the amazing X-Plane rope physics that act more like Goku's power pole than an actual rope!

Also, that article you posted was a good read but a complete waste of time in the context of what we're talking about. Stop trying to fool me. X-Plane is incapable of reproducing the demo Seb showed. Give it up, Sparky

Which part did you find "amazing" - I looked at the external shots and for freeware 3rd party plugins, they seemed reasonable: pendular movement in sync with the helo, etc.

I thought this was a nice little video showing similar, without the weird pilotage in your example video (the OP himself said he wasn't very good at it). BtW, that AS315 is one of the best helo experiences in any sim, hands down.

 

Again, i'm seeing what I expect to see with slung loads, even when the guy is "hot doggin'" down the mountain slopes, etc.

And it's rather convenient that you're dissing something you can do in XP - TODAY - against something that won't even be available in MSFS for a year or so, dontcha think...?