I've got a new GPU (rtx 4080) so naturally I want to crank the settings up.  Before XP12 went to final release I feel like there was a large difference between just FXAA and 8x MSAA (at least when I set them on my old 1080 ti).

I barely notice a difference now.  Is there another slider I should be setting to accommodate 8x MSAA?  Previously (with the 1080 ti) I could run about 2x msaa before my fps dropped too much.  I'm also running at 1440p if that matters.  After posting I notice a difference on top of the main building there but MSAA should be the higher quality and it's got a lot of jaggies.  

xp12_settings by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

(These are 1:1 crops of the screenshot)

XP12_FXAA by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

XP12_MSAA by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

 

 

Edited December 25, 20223 yr by ryanbatc

Hi,

Yep, I actually turned it off. Not worth the hit in performance verses the slightly better view.

It doesn't seem to do anything yet the performance hit is there. Strange.

I just installed XP 12.00 today. 

Ugh.  And double ugh. 

IMHO, the poor state of image quality in the XP 12.00 release version with AA hobbled is nothing short of embarassing.  I'm frankly bewildered by the high praise this program has received by some here--it's hard to understand how anyone could look past the swimming lines and jaggy edges and utter with a straight face that this is the best sim ever.

The only relief I could find in half a day of beating my head against the table top was a tweak to the /Resources/settings.txt file posted by another user on a different forum that allows FXAA to provide some limited anti-aliasing:

Change this line

SETTING_1 renopt_HDR_antial 1 hdr/fsaa_ratio_x 1 hdr/fsaa_ratio_y 1 hdr/use_post_aa 1    hdr/msaa_hw 0

to this (by changing the "0" at the end to a "1")

SETTING_1 renopt_HDR_antial 1 hdr/fsaa_ratio_x 1 hdr/fsaa_ratio_y 1 hdr/use_post_aa 1    hdr/msaa_hw 1

...and set "FXAA" on the AA slider (one notch right of full left) and possibly Ambient Occlusion to off.  No level of MSAA currently produces discernible antialiasing effects on the screen image, but it does still manage to hit the frame rate.  I am running a 2080Ti with the latest (527.56) nVidia drivers on my XPlane box, with a completely fresh install of XP 12.00

If there's some other means available to remediate the lack of AA in XP12, I'd love to hear it.  There was much drum-beating in the LR blog about the wonders of deferred rendering in XP12 back in the Spring--but as the cantankerous old lady in an 80s Wendy's commercial used to ask..."Where's the beef?!"

 

@Bob Scott
Very happy to see the Admin of avsim trying out X-Plane 12.  Not something I expected.

We’ve all acknowledged the AA needs work, and laminar are working on it. However, I don't know what you're seeing to warrant an "ugh and double ugh".

This was taken in XP12 with no post processing and no shaders or filters.  AA looks perfectly acceptable to me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3wtdp9omspzu02/312746647_10229358798815183_6730571658388174734_n.jpg?dl=0

And a night one.

Those of us who are heaping praise onto X-Plane 12, are taking the whole package into consideration. It’s no different to any other software. 1 element doesn’t define the whole thing. 

When comparing the bug list for X-Plane with the bug list for that other sim that has been out for over 2 years, I'd say X-Plane 12 is doing really good for being only 3 months old.  

Edited December 26, 20223 yr by GoranM

I had some partial success with Aliasing off, SSAO off, and using NCP to manage AA.  But, having SSAO off is not ideal so hopefully Laminar figure this issue out.

FYI, I tried older nVidia drivers but got same results.

50 minutes ago, GoranM said:

And a night one.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but even with a closeup screenshot that you posted the AA issues around the windows and stripes are very obvious.

I think perhaps some users are upset because it was moved to "official" release status when it's clearly still needs some work on the AA side of things.  Perhaps this is a driver bug or XP12 code bug but it certainly looks like 8XMSAA is not working.

 

2 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but even with a closeup screenshot that you posted the AA issues around the windows and stripes are very obvious.

I never take anything the wrong way if it has some truth to it.  I've admitted the AA issues exist.  So has everyone else in X-Plane and Laminar.  There has been lively discussions about the AA in the Laminar Slack group.  Developers have brought it up and Laminar are well aware of it.  I can't say anything more on it, due to a permanent NDA in place, but I can say it will be fixed.  My point was, in my opinion, as seen in my screenshots, the quality of the AA doesn't warrant an "ugh and double ugh".  At least for me, they don't.

2 hours ago, CO2Neutral said:

I think perhaps some users are upset because it was moved to "official" release status when it's clearly still needs some work on the AA side of things.

This needs clearing up for people who are not familiar with how Laminar, and indeed other teams, do things.  XP12 was moved to "full release" because all bugs for XP12.00 were addressed.  XP12.01, and future X-Plane 12 incremental versions will have more fixes.  The AA is something that is being investigated and will be fixed for a future update.  People are confusing "stable release" with "bug free" release.  It took XP11 four years to reach, what is considered, a final and full release.  

It can be compared to MSFS.  MSFS, with a team of over 200 highly skilled developers, has been in development for 7 years and out for over 2 years, and even after monthly, several gigabyte, service updates and world updates, the bug list is still quite extensive.  I don't even want to link to it because it's so big (although, I'm more than happy to, if requested).  But it's considered "stable" and was ready for release 2 years ago.  

 

Edited December 26, 20223 yr by GoranM

3 hours ago, GoranM said:

My point was, in my opinion, as seen in my screenshots, the quality of the AA doesn't warrant an "ugh and double ugh".  At least for me, they don't.

What I have seen is reflections that "look" like poor AA.

The wing on the default md80 is a good example, I sent someone a tweeked nml a while back to lesson it.

The difference between 4x AA and not for me in VR is significant, without it you get a lot of "ants" moving over roads as you look around and the edges of the instruments have clear aliasing. With it is fine, 8x AA is to big a performance hit.

Need more screenshots to really understand, I suspect there is an expectation that AA will do something it doesnt.

 

That's with 4xMSAA.

Quote

Those of us who are heaping praise onto X-Plane 12, are taking the whole package into consideration. It’s no different to any other software. 1 element doesn’t define the whole thing. 

1 element? Have you forgotten about the weather and performance issues?

11 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

That's with 4xMSAA.

1 element? Have you forgotten about the weather and performance issues?

No. Can you point me to software that is bug free, 3 months after release of early access, that does not need, or never has needed updates?

Edited December 26, 20223 yr by GoranM

10 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

 

This screenshot is a good example of why it is not AA related.

Those "jaggies" are not Aliasing, and will not/never be removed by Anti-Aliasing.

IMHO.

Edited December 26, 20223 yr by mSparks

2 minutes ago, GoranM said:

No. Can you point me to software that is bug free, that does not need, or never has needed updates?

I think we had this discussion before in another topic. We're not nitpicking small bugs here, this is a major lack of a feature that they considered acceptable to ship in a final, official release. Same with the weather and performance. By the way, you just mentioned above:

Quote

XP12 was moved to "full release" because all bugs for XP12.00 were addressed.

 

3 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

I think we had this discussion before in another topic. We're not nitpicking small bugs here, this is a major lack of a feature that they considered acceptable to ship in a final, official release. Same with the weather and performance. By the way, you just mentioned above:

 

So no. You can’t name software that is bug free.
Yes. All bugs listed for version 12 point zero zero. That doesn’t mean all bugs ever for version 12. There will be more. Up until the last version that could be 4 years from now. These issues have been reported. Laminar are addressing them. 

Edited December 26, 20223 yr by GoranM

6 hours ago, Bob Scott said:

I'm frankly bewildered by the high praise this program has received by some here--it's hard to understand how anyone could look past the swimming lines and jaggy edges and utter with a straight face that this is the best sim ever.

Well, people like yourself don't listen to what is said.  Each individual element of any simulator can be graded against each other, but it is the whole experience that is most important to me.

Sure, XP12 AA needs work. Some of the clouds need work. The tiled terrain can be downright awful in some places.  However, when I add some ortho scenery, simHeaven X-World and Global Forrest V2, the good in XP12 far outweighs those areas that need some work imho.  

MSFS is a very good flight simulator, nobody could deny it. My 2000 hours in it have been very enjoyable, and it is a sim I would recommend anybody try out. For me, the new lighting model in XP12 is just so good, any negatives with it are manageable for me until they get sorted by LR.

Edited December 26, 20223 yr by MrBitstFlyer

2 minutes ago, GoranM said:

So no. You can’t name software that is bug free.
Yes. All bugs listed for version 12 point zero zero. That doesn’t mean all bugs ever for version 12. There will be more. Up until the last version that could be 4 years from now. These issues have been reported. Laminar are addressing them. 

Then what was the point of the betas? They should've just released b1 as final and call it XP12.00.