4 minutes ago, ThomseN_inc said:

Not to mention all the other types of faults that can occur using steam gauges...but hey!

Yeah, but if one steam gauge fail, you have the rest. If your screen fails. Then what? 

News at 11, old man yells at cloud....back to your Jack.

3 minutes ago, aleex said:

Yeah, but if one steam gauge fail, you have the rest. If your screen fails. Then what? 

You got your Ipad, Foreflight or anything else! Its 2020!

Besides that most of the planes still have backup gauges!

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by ThomseN_inc

for bush flying all instruments are optional if your familiar enough with your aircraft tbh - i have flown several ultralights and weight shifts with no guages at all
i think people arguing panels likely fly larger aircraft - flying by the seat of your pants is becoming a lost art like many things we are forgetting

edit: for me its not about how you want to fly, but just that you have fun

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by AirWayMan

24 minutes ago, ThomseN_inc said:

If your screen fails. Then what? 

Then you either have a secondary screen or backup analogue gauges.

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by Farlis

56 minutes ago, ThomseN_inc said:

You got your Ipad, Foreflight or anything else! Its 2020!

Besides that most of the planes still have backup gauges!

Agree. Case in point.The heading indicator gave up on me on a night VFR flight. Cockpit lights were garbage in this plane and even with a flashlight, I couldn't easily read the magnetic compass. It wasn't that big of an issue to begin with but with iPad + Foreflight + Sentry, it a total non-issue. AHRS in the sentry worked really well and could help in an emergency. In IMC, GPS based track, speed and altitude present special consideration, but attitude display on the iPad may help keep the wings level at worst.

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by snglecoil

Love this thread. Excellent contributions but also because it makes me laugh ! Memories.

It reminds me of older hot ones on Avsim where a  great GA pilot we miss these days, @LAdamson was explaining that navigating with the GPS was bringing an exceptional situational awareness to the navigation in his RV flights in Utah. And a doubtful choir was responding   : Yes, but what if the satellite signal is lost, what if your GPS unit fries ? The VOR vs GPS. Homeric. Who can say that 15 years after Larry was wrong ? The VOR infra is slowly fading away as the  NDB has. 

We see the same debate with the glass vs steam gauges cockpit . Vacuum gauges are not monsters of reliability as said earlier by some posters  but we ask for redundancy only for the electronic glass. Go figure. A quick glance to an analogic gauge is said to be more ergonomic that reading numbers on a Garmin. But the Pilatus, Kodiak, Caravan etc. flying in extreme situations, jungles, mountains etc where immediate situational awareness  is a question of life of death have glass these days.

I do not mock anybody here.  I was  myself a bit miffed to see that Asobo was putting glass on most of the GA aircraft. Then I thought about my flying in the boonies and that having the GTN 750 + the steam gauges info on one screen only wouldn't be that bad after all. Like when I look for the good approach trajectory to a non Go-Around airfield😀.   What I also found nifty in Palmer's Garmin is the AoA danger zone beeping. 

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by Dominique_K

The DA40 and DV20 are analog as well. A shame the Baron isn't. That super short glimpse of the analog 172 that we have looks mostly phenomenal IMO. Can't wait.

14 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

It reminds me of older hot ones on Avsim where a  great GA pilot we miss these days, @LAdamson was explaining that navigating with the GPS was bringing an exceptional situational awareness to the navigation in his RV flights in Utah. And a doubtful choir was responding

Oh, I remember this well. I was one of the singers in that choir. Larry had the foresight to know better. What other segment than pilots pride themselves one using the oldest form of technology possible? Here let me pull out a sextant for my next flight. Meanwhile I can't make it across town for carryout pizza without Siri giving my turn-by-turn directions. 😄

Ok, I will say as a guitarist that there is magic in a vacuum tube (valve...for all my friends across the pond) guitar amplifier...but I'll save that debate for another forum!

I remember back in 2005 when I bought my first plane (diamond DA20 ) i got the plane with no glass all steam type setup. It only took me less then a month till i had the thing back in to rip off everything and replaced with a glass setup it was not cheap but the advantages where worthy ... 

17 minutes ago, snglecoil said:

Oh, I remember this well. I was one of the singers in that choir. Larry had the foresight to know better. What other segment than pilots pride themselves one using the oldest form of technology possible? Here let me pull out a sextant for my next flight. Meanwhile I can't make it across town for carryout pizza without Siri giving my turn-by-turn directions. 😄

Ok, I will say as a guitarist that there is magic in a vacuum tube (valve...for all my friends across the pond) guitar amplifier...but I'll save that debate for another forum!

oh boy...not a valve fanatic.

Not overkill at all. In the age of solid state glass who would ever want to go back to unreliable heavy analog gauges with their cranky vacuum pumps, spinning gyros and whatnot. Im so glad to see the back of them. With no moving parts and a wealth of information to hand , todays glass gives you SA like none other.

As for worry about failure - theres backups on the panels and of course the other wise option is to have an app like ForeFlight on a tablet and phone,. It has its own suite of backup instruments, full on PFD, sythviz the works.

 

8 hours ago, Chock said:

A more immediate issue with a digital PFD (unless it can display a replication of round dials), is the way it displays stuff. To take in the information from a digital speed tape, you actually have to look at it and comprehend the number it is displaying, whereas with a traditional clock-style instrument, you can still see what speed it is reading with your peripheral vision by simply being aware of the indicator needle's clock position. I have found this useful many times when I've been flying in real life when I wanted to 'keep my eyes on the road' so to speak; it's very easy to comprehend a target airspeed with your peripheral vision on an analogue gauge by just being aware of the needle's clock position whilst still being 'heads up' and in bush flying, situational awareness is important.

This I completely agree with - and there is a glass solution to this. Manufacturers can easily give the option for the glass display to show analog representations of the instruments. This will give the best of both worlds. In fact some airlines flying the 737NG series specifically asked Boeing for the analog representation option.

See the pic in the link below.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Southwest-Airlines/Boeing-737-7H4/274878/L

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by ThrottleUp

Anyone the glass in this bugger?

 

13 minutes ago, Ron Attwood said:

Anyone the glass in this bugger?

 

Well, if you look up the word overkill in the dictionary, you will find a picture of Mike Patey next to it.

And then there were two! 😵