Agree with Ray 100pct. Even with freeware out there to take advantage of. There is no way anyone is running vanilla other than testing purposes. 

Why is MSFS getting brought up into yet another p3d discussion? Good grief can we not stay focused? This is a p3d forum.  Can we stay on topic please?

 

 

 

Par for the course these days. Instead of moderaters locking threads I would prefer them to just delete any posts referencing the other sim. Its particularly bad in the xplane forums also.

 

8 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I don’t believe any sim enthusiast in these forums runs a basic sim with no addons whatever one it is.

I'm surely one of the few, but in 30 years of flight simming, i haven't bought (or used, if freeware) any airport or global scenery addons, as all I really care about is the aircraft side of things. The only thing I run aside from aircraft addons is a weather engine.

6 minutes ago, Airboeing said:

I'm surely one of the few, but in 30 years of flight simming, i haven't bought (or used, if freeware) any airport or global scenery addons, as all I really care about is the aircraft side of things. The only thing I run aside from aircraft addons is a weather engine.

Which means you fall exactly into the category that Ray was refering to. You use an aircraft addon and a weather engine. That is not the Vanilla sim either.

Yes and no, IIRC Ray was referring to a post regarding scenery addons. I just wanted to point out that there are "die hard" sim enthusiasts who don't care much about scenery. I'm actually fine with what PSX gives me: some color gradients for sky and earth and runway lights 🙂

1 hour ago, Airboeing said:

Yes and no, IIRC Ray was referring to a post regarding scenery addons.

My statement was “I don’t believe any sim can run without third party addons.”

Buying aircraft, a weather program and PSX means you’re not running a vanilla sim.

But the fact you’re happy with default airports shows everyone has different priorities.

19 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 

But the fact you’re happy with default airports shows everyone has different priorities.

Agreed, but I would generelazie that to "default scenery and visuals", not counting the enhancement you get from better virtual cockpits in addons, that's just something you can't avoid when looking for study level systems 🙂

I would also say up to date nav data is fairly indispensable if you want to fly realistically or online.

If someone was to come out with a new sim that had study level aircraft, good performance on the average pc, up to date nav data and charts, full ground handling, flexible camera suite, high resolution accurate airports that get updated regularly, real world scenery that gets updated regularly, the ability to use historic weather, the ability to span across monitors and use home cockpits, high levels of stability, no reliance on third party servers 24/7, etc etc - then we would all jump at that but I suspect it wouldn't cost 59.95 as a one off payment!

5 minutes ago, simfan1983 said:

I would also say up to date nav data is fairly indispensable if you want to fly realistically or online.

If someone was to come out with a new sim that had study level aircraft, good performance on the average pc, up to date nav data and charts, full ground handling, flexible camera suite, high resolution accurate airports that get updated regularly, real world scenery that gets updated regularly, the ability to use historic weather, the ability to span across monitors and use home cockpits, high levels of stability, no reliance on third party servers 24/7, etc etc - then we would all jump at that but I suspect it wouldn't cost 59.95 as a one off payment!

I guess many would happily pay that amount on a monthly basis for such a "perfect" sim. It's still very cheap compared to other hobbies.

The biggest difficulty for 3rd party developers is supporting multiple platforms, unless you are a big firm like Aerosoft / PMDG that task is quiet difficult and inevitably you would end up just following the largest market available in order to keep your business afloat.

Although I am not abandoning support for P3D, I feel myself constrained due to lack of resources and time to make new products for P3D, for example I released several products for MSFS with partners and 1 new product via FSReborn for MSFS (an airplane) and I have 6 more new airplanes on the pipeline for this platform with 3 schedule for release in the next 6 months.

Even when I feel I would like to bring these new airplanes to P3D as well, simply put I have no enough resources to do so and if I hire staff to perform the conversion to P3D the cost would surpass any possible ROI since the airplanes are not Airliners, most of them are small / mid size GA planes suitable for VFR flying really which is not the correct market for P3D.  There is 1 airliner on the pipeline which I will be making with a partner (SWS) but Sim Works Studios has decided to stop developing for P3D and accordingly do not wish to perform a conversion to P3D after we complete the project.

This is the reality, honestly put, hope you guys understand. A business needs to run healthy, specially with the current economical crisis we are all currently living all around the world.

 All the best,
Simbol

 

Following on simbol's point but as a user, I have P3D, MSFS and XP 11/12 installed.  It is tough as a user (with a full time job) to support yourself in multiple environments and maintain all of the sim options too.  At some point, there is only so much time and effort that makes sense, even though I see lots of value in the various sims.

As for P3D facts that the OP claimed to prefer, PMDG is out of the P3D business at this point and that's a very big loss given the airliners they make.  On the upside, there are just so many good products already available and couple that with FSL, iFly and TFDi bringing new products out it suggests that P3D still has a lot of years left in it. It just may be positioned more in the way the FSX is -- if LM aren't coming with a next gen product.

4 hours ago, simfan1983 said:

I would also say up to date nav data is fairly indispensable if you want to fly realistically or online.

If someone was to come out with a new sim that had study level aircraft, good performance on the average pc, up to date nav data and charts, full ground handling, flexible camera suite, high resolution accurate airports that get updated regularly, real world scenery that gets updated regularly, the ability to use historic weather, the ability to span across monitors and use home cockpits, high levels of stability, no reliance on third party servers 24/7, etc etc - then we would all jump at that but I suspect it wouldn't cost 59.95 as a one off payment!

That could happen some time in the future but not run on your PC, Instead run on a mainframe on line for a subscription to stream you just get access but don`t own the product.

53 minutes ago, Iadbound said:

PMDG is out of the P3D business at this point

Where do they state that?

54 minutes ago, Iadbound said:

there are just so many good products already available

Very true.

9 hours ago, jlohrenz said:

Why is MSFS getting brought up into yet another p3d discussion? Good grief can we not stay focused? This is a p3d forum.  Can we stay on topic please?

Because MSFS is the reason the P3D market is in the gutter and comparisons are inevitable.