With a few remarkable exceptions, some that I seldom recall because it goes such a LOOOOONG time since I last tried it ( Flight Unlimited "1" ) and in some way SilentWings, in other aspects Condorsoaring, I am yet to feel a glider being well represented among the various sims I have used.

This applies to both the performance ( although some can get close to their RW polars within a short range of speeds ), but very particularly regarding the "feel" when flying a glider, with it's inherent flight dynamics peculiarities like the augmented adverse yaw, stuff like overbanking and the need for use of cross-controls to coordinate steeper turns, the effects of flaps ( for those equipped with it ) and even the effects of deploying the different types of airbrakes / speedbrakes, the "a bit too much like on-rails" sensation and the reaction to updrafts / downdrafts - the asymmetry of which might get better represented in sims where there is more detail in the representation of ohow different parts of the aircraft receive those updrafts / downdrafts, control surface effectiveness at lowere speeds ( like during landing in cross winds ), etc...

I'd love to see a glider in IL-2 or even DCS, and also some sort of "soaring weather" on those sims just to check if their excellent flight dynamics pass the test 🙂

OTOH I look fwd for both the upcoming soaring weather effects for MFS, and XP12, as well as the fine tunning of their flight dynamics. Meybe one day I can feel in a simulated glider closer to what I feel IRL 🙂

P.S: I used simulated gliders in SFS 2 & 3, Condorsoaring, SilentWings, Flight Unlimited 1 and 3, Flight Gear, all versions of MS FS until MFS, X-Plane since v7.

Edited April 26, 20224 yr by jcomm

Zounds, you're talking DOS sims there (SFS).

1 hour ago, Fielder said:

Zounds, you're talking DOS sims there (SFS).

Yep !  SFS was ( once upon a time... ) a great soaring sim 🙂

I actually used it before FU1, and a newer version latter. Both were great for playing tasks, although very limited graphics wise compared to FU1...

But after SFS at least 3 soaring-oriented flight simulators became available: Condoroaring in 2006 soon followed by Silent Wings in 2007, and yet another one whose I can't recall now ( Spanish made ).

In MS FS 9 and 10 there were quite a few gliders, same for X-Plane.

And what controllers would you use that would allow you to realistically feel these sensations even if they were as accurately modeled as you desire?

Sounds pricey!

Edited April 26, 20224 yr by HiFlyer

2 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

And what controllers would you use that would allow you to realistically feel these sensations even if they were as accurately modeled as you desire?

Sounds pricey!

It's not only up to the controllers Devon... it involves various parameters in the flight dynamics, that do not depend on control realism, although OFC that also plays an important role ...

 

8 hours ago, jcomm said:

It's not only up to the controllers Devon... it involves various parameters in the flight dynamics, that do not depend on control realism, although OFC that also plays an important role ...

 

I purchased some pricey controllers once, thinking they would enhance "realism" (whatever that is)

And they just felt clunky and eventually, a bit sticky, even.

I came to dislike them, and am not even sure exactly where I put them.

If real planes felt like that, I suspect people would not enjoy flying as much as they seem to...

9 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

I purchased some pricey controllers once, thinking they would enhance "realism" (whatever that is)

And they just felt clunky and eventually, a bit sticky, even.

I came to dislike them, and am not even sure exactly where I put them.

If real planes felt like that, I suspect people would not enjoy flying as much as they seem to...

🙂

Find them and send it all to me in Porta-Land !  I'll evaluate and report back !

Dont forget to include one of those lousy RTX 3090 Ti that only make MFS run slower. I don't mind ! I'm ya friend !!! I'm here to help !

Jokes appart, I am with you regarding how important some of the limitations imposed by the controllers we use in flight simulation are and the way they limit the "sensation of flight" we get from a real flight. There's also peripheral vision ( I believe this one is being overtaken by VR HW ) and the various forces our bodies are subject to when flying for real, which are additional clues for control inputs required to control an aircraft of any type, but truth is that this all rises even more the question of how limited some basic effects are.

I would concentrate in one per post in this thread, starting with:

- taking off and landing under crosswind ( in a glider ) :

On very few occasions did I have to use similar techniques in a flight simulator to cope with operating under x-wind conditions. Most of the time I get perfect response from my rudder and ailerons as soon as the tow starts, or near the end of the landing run. 

Most probably a mix of factors, starting with not so great ground physics - a problem with many simulators, with just a few exceptions like those of FU1 and 3 as far as I recall, and IL-2 ( even a bit overdone IMO ).

Strangely X-Plane does an acceptable work with powered aircraft, particularly prop aircraft with their props in the "nose", where we can actually feel how ineffective their rudder(s) can be at slow taxi speeds, low power settings and before they get into speed during takeoff. Again IL-2 does a great job here too ( better than DCS IMO ). But when it comes to gliders, maybe because of the single or at most two contact sufaces with the runway, gliders become again almost free from x-wind effect on ground, or at least in it's variation with speed.

Condorsoaring has a very basic ground physics model so, even being usually described as the best soaring sim, it fails totally in terms of replicating ground physics under x-wind, and as a whole actually...

P.S.: Finally recalled SotS, that other, not very well known, soaring sim released around 2007 too, by the time Silent Wings was released:

Cloudbase Soaring. Sots glider simulator. - YouTube

Edited April 27, 20224 yr by jcomm

The 2 glider mission in FSX completely blown my mind back then, That's the first time I noticed glider are far from controlled freefall.

But after that , not much get into my aware, maybe except condorsoaring, but never bought that, my passion for glider died out quick after that 2 FSX mission...

This post makes me wonder what modern sim could offer, like ASP3D+Realtrub+Accufeel should at least be better than stock FSX, right?

I don't have much knowledge on soaring... It's hard for me to imagine how to plan a route without motor and spot rising wind without visual help....but I know it could be done, maybe that would be good hobby to put into my midage crisis lists when I was done with all those jets I have for now😜

13 minutes ago, C2615 said:

I don't have much knowledge on soaring... It's hard for me to imagine how to plan a route without motor and spot rising wind without visual help....but I know it could be done, maybe that would be good hobby to put into my midage crisis lists when I was done with all those jets I have for now😜

Arrange for a glider ride !  I'm sure you'll undesrtand my passion 🙂

16 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Arrange for a glider ride !  I'm sure you'll undesrtand my passion 🙂

Any tool for that? I have searched and found CumulusX, but seems not up to P3Dv4?

Or anything in XP11?

54 minutes ago, C2615 said:

Any tool for that? I have searched and found CumulusX, but seems not up to P3Dv4?

Or anything in XP11?

Did use CumusX quite a lot with fsx. Was good within the limitations of FSX's flight model.

I don't like X-Plane glider flying that much.... but there is always a chance to use a very interesting tool used in the real glider, on the same PC running XP, on teh same Android or iPhone you use in your real glider or in a networked PC - xCSoar or Top-Hat can easily be configured to use the NMEA output from XP.

There is also a similar bridge for MFS now: ALBATROSS MSFS competitions - Touching Cloud

 

Before I obtained my PPL I started gliding lessons. Just short of soloing, I remembering buying the glider for FSX. Hit the key to tow you up, then release and glide downwards. I don’t remember catching any thermals and after a few glides that was it for the glider experience in the sim. Perhaps it has not improved to any significant degree. The sounds or should I say lack of wind sounds, were not that impressive.

1 hour ago, Doering said:

Before I obtained my PPL I started gliding lessons. Just short of soloing, I remembering buying the glider for FSX. Hit the key to tow you up, then release and glide downwards. I don’t remember catching any thermals and after a few glides that was it for the glider experience in the sim. Perhaps it has not improved to any significant degree. The sounds or should I say lack of wind sounds, were not that impressive.

I could accept the not so detailled sounds, although they're great even as a way of giving some interesting clues ( and, btw,  the most famous portuguese glder pilot taught me in the eraly eighties of teh last Century how to use toilet paper thrown out of the glider window to evaluate termal centering spots... ).

But as you say, the towing is uneventful / boring no matter how "tricky" the winds / turbulence are.

I finally made some glider flight with some "Cheat code" to begin with.

The Thermal visualization is not as elegant as FSX, but quite technical and detailed, I tried to see if it's something I can link by observe ground cover etc. but not to my naked eyes...

Terrain rise is the only thing I can predict with some accuracy at least...

 

And speaking of Cheat, ofc using a motor glider is the best way to do so🤪

On 6/26/2022 at 10:26 AM, C2615 said:

I finally made some glider flight with some "Cheat code" to begin with.

The Thermal visualization is not as elegant as FSX, but quite technical and detailed, I tried to see if it's something I can link by observe ground cover etc. but not to my naked eyes...

 

Terrain rise is the only thing I can predict with some accuracy at least...

And speaking of Cheat, ofc using a motor glider is the best way to do so🤪

 

Is that XP12 ?