Hi all,

I am keen to replicate a few real-world routes which use 787s.

For the last few year, I have pretty much exclusively used the FSL A320, and for the last five or so, the PMDG 747, with a little 737 and 777.

I can live without failures - but does the 787 have enough depth to be a convincing depiction of the real 787 like the FSL and PMDG aircraft?
For instance - are all displays and autopilot/FMC functions models or are there some glaring/annoying omissions?

I realise there is not quite the level of systems detail that is in FSL A320 / PMDG products - but basically?  Does each system the pilot uses work as expected and display correctly?  Does the LNAV/VNAV behave nicely?  HUD?
Also - are the sounds good?

It'd be the first aircraft I've bought that would be "less detailed" than some of the ones I've mentioned, and being the tedious git that I am, I am wondering if it is still worthwhile?

Any opinions welcome!

Thanks,
Rudy

Sorry for the short answer, but no. Stick to the aircraft you have.

 

Cheers

Hi Rudy.

The good thing about Flight1 is can try it, and get a refund if you don't like it. Based on that, I'd suggest you give it a try and see if it's for you or not :)

Great question Rudy! I am in the same boat.  I have too many addons collecting dust as they don’t compare to the quality of PMDG, FSL or Majestic.  QW787 has been on my watch list for a while too.

Please keep us posted!

Dan

This aircraft is probably best described using the English phrase as being a “ Curate’s egg” https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/163300.html

As both a sim enthusiast owner of the QW 787 and a pilot of a 787 in the real world I’ll attempt a few comments.

I should say that I’ve not used the QW 787 for many months now so these comments are just from memory, I have a sim check coming up next week so I’ll be using the QW in the next couple of days for some revision so I may return with some more updated thoughts over the next few days.

I’ll start by saying from the off that I like the QW 787, the phrase Curate’s egg really is fitting though. There are many parts that really are superb and others,perhaps not so much. It’s wether or not the bad bits spoil the good bits for you, and that’s a personal perspective only you can make.

I must admit to being a little frustrated by the QW 78 in that it’s foundations are so good it could easily  be polished into a true masterpiece of PMDG quality. However QW have made a statement along the lines of we aren’t PMDG and we don’t want to be, which is a real shame where this aircraft is concerned.

I get the impression that the great flight simulator developer sponge that is MSFS has also soaked up the QW developers and they are busy concentrating on bringing the 787 to that platform rather than issuing feature updates to the P3D version, I may be wrong. 

QW 787 COMPARED TO OTHER SIMULATIONS ..

It’s certainly true there are missing or mis-simulated functions in the FMC for example. It doesn’t have the full simulation of the PMDG/FSL level by any means, however for day to day operations it’s not bad at all. 

Although failures are not modelled the systems do all seem to be fairly accurately represented, manually disabling a system such as the hydraulics by turning it off will indeed cause the related side effects.

The PFD and ND are not quite as smooth as some other simulated aircraft, the hud is a little jerky at times, but the refresh rate of the real HUD isn’t completely smooth either if you look closely.

Animations and cockpit texturing are all very good however and here no far at all from the best of the best, nothing really to disappoint me personally. I have invested in the immersion add on which adds a few visual effects, which is nice to look at, but is slightly wasted on me as I fly in VR so seldom take external views.

The aircraft is probably best described as residing in the upper mid range to lower top end , probably more in the top end to be fair.

For day to day line operations I think you should be fine and enjoy this aircraft, It’s when you start using it in the way I , and other pilots brushing up for sim rides might use it that things start coming apart.

For example I might fly an ILS on one engine, go around and re position for an RNAV approach. It doesn’t like this sort of thing and gets confused quite easily. It’s VNAV, LNAV and in particular the autothrust modes fall apart, quite often on a second approach no matter how much you hit the TOGA button the thing simply wont enter TOGA so you end up being committed to either landing or disconnecting the automatics and manually flying a go around on raw data.

To be fair the high end PMDG products are also guilty of this to a lesser degree, I would guess it’s the way VNAV is scripted in that it expects a take off , cruise , and landing, in that order and not going up and down in the terminal area like we practice for in sim rides.

If simply you fly from A to B with LNAV/VNAV engaged all the way, ie a normal flight you should be fine.

The sound effects are very nice on this aircraft which engine sounds being very true to the RR Trent which I fly. There are some hidden little noises to pick out if you listen carefully. For example you can hear the hydraulic demand pumps turn on or off at the correct time intervals after engine start. Can you hear this in the real flight deck? Well no, at least I haven’t but I do like that they are there and audible in the sim as it shows great attention to detail which I like.

The flight modelling seems good to me , the way the FBW compensates for thrust asymmetry is modelled as are things like the bank limiter.

So overall I think it’s price is very reasonable compared to top tier aircraft, I think features and feel of the aircraft your getting slightly more per dollar compared to the top tier stuff where it’s probably a case of diminishing returns for those extra 10s of dollars adding the extra polish onto the simulation.

 

QW 787 COMPARED TO THE REAL 787…

I have to say I’m far from an expert on the 787, I’ve only been flying it for less than a year having  flown a proper, sorry different 😉🙂 aircraft, the 747-400 for many years previously ..pandemic and all that.

I used the QW 787 for familiarisation before and during my type conversion and it was extremely helpful in this regard.

The simulation, especially in VR does an excellent job of recreating the feel of the real flightdeck.

The 787 being FBW perhaps isn’t really “flown” in the  same way that say a 747 or 737 would be, the auto throttle remains engaged at all times for example, and as such it’s been hard for me to get a feel of the aircrafts character. However from what I can tell the QW handling does not seem too errant, other more experienced 787 pilots who also sim may disagree though.

There are a few things though that are used in daily flying on every sector that have slipped through the net which are disappointing.

One of these which is quite important and would be very easy to simulate, but hasn’t been is the TOGA reference line on the HUD. This line is presented on the HUD during take off and is the line you initially pitch the aircraft up to on rotation. It’s a shame this simple line on the HUD is missing, as every take off is thus not properly simulated.

Another is the behaviour of the TCP tuning control panel, according to the marketing this has been modelled in detail, however one of it’s most basic functions isn’t correct. On the aircraft a new frequency can be entered straight into the active frequency slot, the previous frequency is then slid across to the standby slot. However on the QW version a new frequency has to go into the standby slot then moved across. Not a massive issue but an immersion breaker if you’re used to using the real one.

In VR the feel of sat next to those large side windows is accurately portrayed.

Another feature I like is the ability to call up weather reports via activesky using the correct techniques in the aircrafts menus in the MFDs. 

The EFBs are simulated though have missing functions, though if I remember correctly it is possible to perform a performance calculation on the EFB and then true to real life send this data across the FMC.

So in summary perhaps if you bought this for the full premium price that’s attached to PMDG/FSL etc you may be slightly disappointed but at its actual cost I think you’re getting a lot of good aircraft for the money and you will be pleasantly suprised.

As I mentioned before I’ve not used the QW since I did my type rating at the start of the year so may have forgotten much about it.I’m going to be using it over the next few days for sim check revision so now I’ve got some more time on the real aircraft the simulation might feel differently and I might notice more omissions and indeed maybe some previously unseen additions. If I get time I might post again with any updated opinions.

I'd give it an 8 out of 10...not top-tier, but then it's not priced at that level, either.

Here are a few things I'll add to what's already been said:

Pro: has an inbuilt jump-ahead feature so that you can take off heavy and fully-loaded for a 12-18 hr flight, jump-ahead to a point further along the flight plan, and continue from there.  That way you can do a long overwater flight, getting the feel for a heavyweight takeoff and climbout, then skip as much of the cruise as you'd like, and then focus on the arrival, approach, and landing.  A 10-16 hour flight can be easily whittled down to 1-2 hrs, catching the best parts while bypassing 10+ hours of sheer oceanic boredom.

Con: the displays are limited to the 18 Hz internal gauge clock, so speed/altitude tape and other gauge movement is not as smooth as the latest top-shelf offerings, especially on a large-format display where it's more noticeable.

Worth $80?  I think it's price is commensurate with what you get.

On 11/18/2021 at 3:55 PM, jon b said:

QW 787 COMPARED TO THE REAL 787…

Another feature I like is the ability to call up weather reports via activesky using the correct techniques in the aircrafts menus in the MFDs. 

 

Hi Jon,

I really do appreciate you posting your perspective on both the sim and the RW comparison.It was really good to read through.

 

I am interested in what you stated about calling up the Activesky weather report from the MFD. I have been doing this from the P3D top menu instead.

Could you provide some addition detail as to how that is done in the sim?

 

2nd question: On the entry of the Decent altitudes for winds in the FMC Descent page, is the QW sim correctly modelling this, in that it is a manual entry of FLs in the FMS?

 

3rd question: Have you tried using the Reminders function that you can program into the QW 787 FMC? This is part of the additional MFD menu functions.

 

I personally am also enjoying the QW 787. I am on my extended round the world tour and have 70 hrs under my belt flying a GE-engined Norwegian 787. Currently in Auckland (thank you Flightbeam!) waiting to do a hop to Honolulu.

 

Cheers
Mark

The Virtual Cockpit geometry and FMC texturing is....so-so. But again...it's just $80. 

@787flyer

Hi Mark, no problem at all.

Re the weather, I’m about to fire the 787 sim up for the first time in months so I’ll get back to you if it’s different once I’ve had had a look, but in the aircraft at least press the COMM button select company, then weather. There should be an option to input 4 icao airport codes and get either TAF or METAR.If I remember rightly the sim gives you the option of the source, I think vatsim, activesky and perhaps another. Press send and hey presto you should get a selection of weather realistically presented on your MFD.

2nd question: no, on the aircraft you don’t have to manually enter the FLs. I’m not sure how the FLs are selected by the software but they don’t need to be manually entered.

3rd question, no I don’t think I’ve tried the reminders function. On the aircraft we use them for various things like crew changes or required position reports , or to put the belts on at 20,000ft etc.

On 11/18/2021 at 6:55 AM, jon b said:

There are some hidden little noises to pick out if you listen carefully. For example you can hear the hydraulic demand pumps turn on or off at the correct time intervals after engine start

Do they model this on the hydraulic synoptic page yet though?  Last time I looked at it they didn't model the test after startup or any of the other high demand scenarios. PMDG does model the demand pumps operation during the appropriate times in their 777 and it's one of many details where the QW787 falls short. 

They also had C1 and C2 both active instead of C1 being primary on odd days, and C2 being primary on even days, with the opposite pump only active in the high demand situations.  I thought I read in one of the change logs that they may have fixed this, but I haven't checked it out yet.

This is the first time I've heard the Curate’s egg expression, but I do have to say that it is very fitting in this case, and probably for many other addons.  The QW787 isn't a bad product and for the vast majority it's probably fine considering it's the only 787 available for the P3D.  But for someone looking to dig deeper in to any of the systems it may disappoint. 

 

Sorry Brian,I didn’t get around to replying, been busy with my sim check.

Ive not checked out the hydraulic page for correct behaviour, but when I did take a cursory look both C pumps were on, so maybe not.

I ended up having to supplement my 787 practice with some exercises in the PMDG 777 for things like engine failure in the cruise and drift down. The QW 787 has no engine out prompt on the VNAV page !

I was left wishing for 2 things 1) the QW 787 had more features 2) PMDG would make a 787 

As you say ,this is the only 787 option available so we have to make the most of it.