9 minutes ago, rick celik said:

I constantly share information, but if you get smart saying “NO I WONT HOLD YOU TO IT” because you have the 777 on msfs and xplane and that to you is enough to say it’s like in real life, then no I won’t spoon food it to you.

interesting way you think the world works my guy.

Rick, now you are fabricating statements. I never said MSFS and X-Plane are real life. I said in simming it is not likely that the trim on 2 different 777s would work in the same way in what I have experienced, and what are the chances both would get it wrong.

Very odd that you would spend the time and effort to make numerous posts to this thread, but not the one post supporting your statement that would be very redeeming.

Edited May 27, 20251 yr by alanw2005

2 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

Rick, now you are fabricating statements. I never said MSFS and X-Plane are real life. I said in simming it is not likely that the trim on 2 different 777 model makers works the same in what I ave experienced and what are the chances both would get it wrong.

Very odd that you would spend the time and effort to make numerous posts to this thread, but not a post supporting your statement that would be very redeeming.

Editing your comments won’t get you out of it. 
 

Exactly right, I won’t. To someone who was snarky and rude to my initial comment. Yeah right. Not how the world works bud. You could’ve easily searched it yourself before throwing snarky comments and spending the time to argue perhaps?

7 minutes ago, rick celik said:

Editing your comments won’t get you out of it. 
 

Exactly right, I won’t. To someone who was snarky and rude to my initial comment. Yeah right. Not how the world works bud. You could’ve easily searched it yourself before throwing snarky comments and spending the time to argue perhaps?

I edited my comments to add more information as you have.

So you make a statement that you can't back up. I made the comment that as far as simming goes, I don't notice any trim difference on 777s made by 2 different companies. I qualified this statement with simming and not IRL.

You then reply with a real life comment and then proceed to lose the lot for the last several hours.

But you accuse me of being snarky. Let me refresh your memory on how the interaction started.

 

Would this help?

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/microsoft-flight-simulator-2020-2024-products-discussion/pmdg-777/autoflight-manual-flight-navigation-aa/344743-hand-flying-the-777f-in-pitch

@alanw2005 if we were to summon up LRBS I think you would find him extremely vocal on this subject.

Hope this helps everyone to kiss and make up😃.

16 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Would this help?

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/microsoft-flight-simulator-2020-2024-products-discussion/pmdg-777/autoflight-manual-flight-navigation-aa/344743-hand-flying-the-777f-in-pitch

@alanw2005 if we were to summon up LRBS I think you would find him extremely vocal on this subject.

Hope this helps everyone to kiss and make up😃.

@LRBS is the best. Much respect to that guy. We are very lucky to have him on this forum. Thanks very much for the link. So this issue was for the 777F in MSFS 2020?

Edited May 27, 20251 yr by alanw2005

Both Boeing and Airbus themselves could both make a plane for the sim and people would still say they did something wrong or something isn't modeled correctly.

It's a video game, It can be modeled perfectly compared to the RW counterpart but in the sim it probably will behave totally different.

4 hours ago, alanw2005 said:

So easy that you can't find the reference that you are quoting? So you are now retracting your "don't hold me to this" statement. You are now saying it is fact? I don't believe it exists so no need for me to search, especially when you say don't hold me to this. Occam's Razor says 2 good companies won't get it wrong.

What you've got to realize is that what we have are more like Simulacrum rather than Simulation.

I.e., due to limitations in flight sim engines, SDKs, developer talent/time, inconsistent public documentation, and especially access to the IRL aircraft for comparative testing, what we get on our desktops is really just an approximation of reality.

Particularly when it comes to flight physics.

Think of it this way: a painting may be beautiful, technically detailed & precise, and evocative, but it's never going to fool you vs the real thing.

Even IRL pilots often disagree on certain aspects of which addon is more accurate (and there's a good bit of psych behind that...).

So if two different devs have re-created their approximations to a similar degree, it still doesn't mean they both got it RIGHT.

Edited May 27, 20251 yr by UrgentSiesta

15 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

What you've got to realize is that what we have are more like Simulacrum rather than Simulation.

I.e., due to limitations in flight sim engines, SDKs, developer talent/time, inconsistent public documentation, and especially access to the IRL aircraft for comparative testing, what we get on our desktops is really just an approximation of reality.

Particularly when it comes to flight physics.

Think of it this way: a painting may be beautiful, technically detailed & precise, and evocative, but it's never going to fool you vs the real thing.

Even IRL pilots often disagree on certain aspects of which addon is more accurate (and there's a good bit of psych behind that...).

So if two different devs have re-created their approximations to a similar degree, it still doesn't mean they both got it RIGHT.

Great points. And as others said, it is just a very fun video game. It amazes me when the younger generation can get the high score on a landing challenge using the Xbox contoller. That is wild. 

8 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

Great points. And as others said, it is just a very fun video game. It amazes me when the younger generation can get the high score on a landing challenge using the Xbox contoller. That is wild. 

It's a Tool, or perhaps an Instrument.

No more, no less. 🤙

5 hours ago, alanw2005 said:

I edited my comments to add more information as you have.

So you make a statement that you can't back up. I made the comment that as far as simming goes, I don't notice any trim difference on 777s made by 2 different companies. I qualified this statement with simming and not IRL.

You then reply with a real life comment and then proceed to lose the lot for the last several hours.

But you accuse me of being snarky. Let me refresh your memory on how the interaction started.

 

Yes thanks for refreshing my memory, there is nothing wrong with me saying as opposed to real life when you start saying that because you “have two pmdg 777s and the flight factor version on x plane” that they can’t be wrong.

Sorry but you were the snarky one but you’ve edited comments to sway the sympathy in your direction, you don’t have someone that’s silly in front of you believe me. You’ve definitely edited your comments I’ve only edited to add or edit grammar. 
 

Me saying “as opppsed to real life” is adding to my previous comment just to clarify I wasn’t comparing flight sim addons, because you did and I wanted to make clear I was talking about speed trim modelled in the sim as opposed to real life. If a comment like that hurt your feelings then that’s a you problem.
 

Instead of arguing, taking screenshots and editing comments, you should’ve just searched for yourself and would’ve saved yourself from embarrassment.

And even after someone has linked it to you (mind you that’s just one) there’s still other forums and reddit articles to go by, you turn around can’t accept defeat and say “So that’s just for the 777F”. NO MATE that’s for the 777 PMDG they all use the same code for the fly by wire and speed trim. Jeeeeez. 
 

Let me make this clear, I’m around pilots all day. There’s been plenty of discussion about many addons including the 777 by PMDG. I’m not just talking for the sake of talking.

Edited May 27, 20251 yr by rick celik

Ahhhhh the multiple inboxes on how you are on the forums explains it all 🤣 

Glad you come across someone who put you in your place. Now pipe it down. Remember before you edited your comment you said “ I have two PMDG 777s and flight factor 777, they both can’t be wrong??”. Now in fact you’ve agreed it’s a “fun video game” after others have pointed out that yes sim devs can’t make it exactly like real life. 
 

So you disagree with me but agree with others on the same point, do you understand how lost you make yourself look.

32 minutes ago, rick celik said:

Yes thanks for refreshing my memory, there is nothing wrong with me saying as opposed to real life when you start saying that because you “have two pmdg 777s and the flight factor version on x plane” that they can’t be wrong.

Sorry but you were the snarky one but you’ve edited comments to sway the sympathy in your direction, you don’t have someone that’s silly in front of you believe me. You’ve definitely edited your comments I’ve only edited to add or edit grammar. 
 

Me saying “as opppsed to real life” is adding to my previous comment just to clarify I wasn’t comparing flight sim addons, because you did and I wanted to make clear I was talking about speed trim modelled in the sim as opposed to real life. If a comment like that hurt your feelings then that’s a you problem.
 

Instead of arguing, taking screenshots and editing comments, you should’ve just searched for yourself and would’ve saved yourself from embarrassment.

And even after someone has linked it to you (mind you that’s just one) there’s still other forums and reddit articles to go by, you turn around can’t accept defeat and say “So that’s just for the 777F”. NO MATE that’s for the 777 PMDG they all use the same code for the fly by wire and speed trim. Jeeeeez. 
 

Let me make this clear, I’m around pilots all day. There’s been plenty of discussion about many addons including the 777 by PMDG. I’m not just talking for the sake of talking.

Hope you had a nice sleep. First thing you do when you wake up is light up the forum? Nice!!

There you go with the insults calling me silly. It means you lost the argument.
 

Quote

Sorry but you were the snarky one but you’ve edited comments to sway the sympathy in your direction, you don’t have someone that’s silly in front of you believe me. You’ve definitely edited your comments I’ve only edited to add or edit grammar. 

Good one! I edited for typos. I did expand my sentences for clarity in a couple of cases. But then you try to make it sound that I am deleting things. Sorry, but gas lighting doesn't work on me at all. I guess you are the only one that can edit for typos? Got it.

Again I didn't say I couldn't be wrong. I told you my experience with 2 different sim models. Are you making  things up for the sake of an argument?

Rick, I hope you are not getting unhinged. Flight simming is merely video game entertainment. 

If I embarrased you for calling you out on a comment you couldn't substantiate, remember that you did say don't hold me to it. So don't worry, I won't. I promise.
 

Quote

And even after someone has linked it to you (mind you that’s just one) there’s still other forums and reddit articles to go by, you turn around can’t accept defeat and say “So that’s just for the 777F”. NO MATE that’s for the 777 PMDG they all use the same code for the fly by wire and speed trim. Jeeeeez. 

Seriously?? This is the post that proves your point? Surely you jest. You do know this is a post by someone complaining about the PMDG 777F in MSFS 2020? Well why didn't you say so. I would have not responded to your comment. You should have been more clear. Because I am referring to the 777 that came out in 2025 for MSFS 2024. FYI, the PMDG 2025 777 for MSFS 2024 is completely different code from the 2024 PMDG 777 that runs on MSFS 2020. Would you like the link confirming this?

Really, it looks like you are grasping at straws. In case you missed it:

Emi, a real airline pilot did not notice any pitch trim issues in his video from 10 months ago:

 

Alos, in case you missed it, this is Emi's comments on the 777 pitch trim in MSFS 2020 on the 777F that came out in 2024 (highlighted so you don't miss it 😞

37 minutes ago, rick celik said:

Ahhhhh the multiple inboxes on how you are on the forums explains it all 🤣 

Glad you come across someone who put you in your place. Now pipe it down. Remember before you edited your comment you said “ I have two PMDG 777s and flight factor 777, they both can’t be wrong??”. Now in fact you’ve agreed it’s a “fun video game” after others have pointed out that yes sim devs can’t make it exactly like real life. 
 

So you disagree with me but agree with others on the same point, do you understand how lost you make yourself look.

Woa. Machine gun posts. I seriously hope you are not getting unhinged.

You don't think I have an inbox too? Don't be so desperate. Go do some flying. This is just a video game. As you requested: "don't hold me to it." Believe me I won't. You have my word.

4 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

Hope you had a nice sleep. First thing you do when you wake up is light up the forum? Nice!!

There you go with the insults calling me silly. It means you lost the argument.
 

Good one! I edited for typos. I did expand my sentences for clarity in a couple of cases. But then you try to make it sound that I am deleting things. Sorry, but gas lighting doesn't work on me at all. I guess you are the only one that can edit for typos? Got it.

Again I didn't say I couldn't be wrong. I told you my experience with 2 different sim models. Are you making  things up for the sake of an argument?

Rick, I hope you are not getting unhinged. Flight simming is merely video game entertainment. 

If I embarrased you for calling you out on a comment you couldn't substantiate, remember that you did say don't hold me to it. So don't worry, I won't. I promise.
 

Seriously?? This is the post that proves your point? Surely you jest. You do know this is a post by someone complaining about the PMDG 777F in MSFS 2020? Well why didn't you say so. I would have not responded to your comment. You should have been more clear. Because I am referring to the 777 that came out in 2025 for MSFS 2024. FYI, the PMDG 2025 777 for MSFS 2024 is completely different code from the 2024 PMDG 777 that runs on MSFS 2020. Would you like the link confirming this?

Really, it looks like you are grasping at straws. In case you missed it:

Emi, a real airline pilot did not notice any pitch trim issues in his video from 10 months ago:

 

Alos, in case you missed it, this is Emi's comments on the 777 pitch trim in MSFS 2020 on the 777F that came out in 2024 (highlighted so you don't miss it 😞

Based on you trying so hard to prove that you’re right, it seems you’re over compensating on a flight sim forum for something else…. You got snarky first and got dealt with. You need to tell yourself it’s just a video game I’ve been laughing at you this whole time trying to justify how flight sim addons are comparable to real life 😂😂😂 

Oh I woke up a while ago mate don’t worry. If you knew what I done for work you would be shocked 🤣 

Look at you go with all these links and posts that amount to nothing. I’ll explain to you again (mind you it’s like talking to a toddler by now) I said don’t hold me to it because I couldn’t remember where and if I read it but I clearly did. All it took was a quick search. 
 

Based on what people have been privately messaging me and you being stuck on who’s “won”, you’re definitely hurt about something, something I said has hurt you. It’s ok though compete strangers don’t take it to heart.
 

 

4 minutes ago, alanw2005 said:

Woa. Machine gun posts. I seriously hope you are not getting unhinged.

You don't think I have an inbox too? Don't be so desperate. Go do some flying. This is just a video game. As you requested: "don't hold me to it." Believe me I won't. You have my word.

Shhhhh be quiet you know you are the one who got unhinged about me saying it can’t be like real life quoting that you have two 777s plus one on xplane plus one you haven’t flown in ages and you said CS777. 😂 you’re a joke. Now be quiet you know you lost you know it’s a game you know you shouldn’t have carried on the way you did. Now you got put in your place. Shhhhhh 🤫