2 hours ago, Adamski_NZ said:

Interesting!! I've steered clear of GFE for ages because of all the bloatware. So ... how do the filters [still] work once GFE is removed (genuine question)? 

I've since created a separate Reshade profile that I activate when zoomed in (and paused) for screenshots. Not ideal, but at least I can get decent pics.

Maybe ages ago there were issues but nowadays I don't see any significant bloat but when you initially load it just make sure you deselect its optimize games option.  I don't ever need to open up GFE per se, just use Alt-F3 to open filter if you wish to adjust or alter them ever once set up.  It can be a challenge to get GFE installed as NV has really made it nigh to impossible unless you get a rather old driver which contains GFE in its installation routine.

@Adamski_NZ It’s possible to download and install GFE separately without an older driver. It takes some googling around.

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Maybe ages ago there were issues but nowadays I don't see any significant bloat but when you initially load it just make sure you deselect its optimize games option.  I don't ever need to open up GFE per se, just use Alt-F3 to open filter if you wish to adjust or alter them ever once set up.  It can be a challenge to get GFE installed as NV has really made it nigh to impossible unless you get a rather old driver which contains GFE in its installation routine.

 

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

@Adamski_NZ It’s possible to download and install GFE separately without an older driver. It takes some googling around.

Thanks to both of you ... I might just have a go at it (!).

UPDATE:

Many thanks for the GFE info. To save other people Googling, the download link to the old GFE is here:
https://us.download.nvidia.com/GFE/GFEClient/3.28.0.417/GeForce_Experience_v3.28.0.417.exe

I installed it, updated it (and did NOT upgrade it) and took care not to allow it to optimise anything. The game bar comes up as of old and I was able to add filters etc. All good - thanks!

I played around with the GFE Details filter, but found it didn't really help that much with the original problem. I could certainly get the cockpits to look better, but then the external views were a bit of a mess (and vice-versa).

So .. I went back to using my Reshade "zoom-in" preset, which gave me much more control (compared to GFE filters) and could also be toggled on/off (or go to previous/next preset) with simple keybinds.

21 hours ago, Adamski_NZ said:

Not fair, I think - as the upper pic of the two is a straightforward [Photoshop] zoom & crop: a tiny part of the original/main image. I had to do it that way to avoid eye-adaptation kicking in. The lower image, bleached out as it is, is much clearer.

*However* I do agree up to a point. I still have 2020 on my system but haven't run it since installing 2024 (I don't want to risk it messing up 2024 in any way). I recently posted a few pics of the Tornado in MSFS 2024 (see https://www.nzff.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32759) and was shocked (but not entirely surprised) to find that an old buddy of mine has posted much clearer, brighter pictures using 2020 with [get this] my old system (!!). See his here: https://www.nzff.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32765

For all its new-ish eye candy, I do think something has gone awry with 2024 - not helped, IMHO, with all these lighting cock-ups. Let's face it, 2024 cockpit lighting *also* has problems.

Not sure about "fair", but I have 2020 and 2024 installed and there is a clear difference with 2024 having a matt/grainy look in comparison to 2024 and I see the same in screenshots and videos from others.

It's evidently not peculiar to my system

This must be seen as improvement by most as I hear pretty much zero complaining of it

Personally I find it slightly overdone though can see how this graphical change if made more subtle would have been an improvement

 

7 minutes ago, Rusty Spanner said:

This must be seen as improvement by most as I hear pretty much zero complaining of it

So are you complaining or just pointing it out? 

1 hour ago, Rusty Spanner said:

Not sure about "fair", but I have 2020 and 2024 installed and there is a clear difference with 2024 having a matt/grainy look in comparison to 2024 and I see the same in screenshots and videos from others.

It's evidently not peculiar to my system

This must be seen as improvement by most as I hear pretty much zero complaining of it

Personally I find it slightly overdone though can see how this graphical change if made more subtle would have been an improvement

Maybe I've just got used to how 2024 looks, but the more I look at it (now) I think you're right. It's decidedly "grubby" or "muddy" compared to (I think) how I remember 2020 used to look. As I said, I haven't fired up 2020 for a long time - but looking back over the hundreds of 2020 screenshots I've taken I can see they're cleaner and crisper.

I suppose a lot depends on how terrain+objects are rendered (complicated enough in itself) before any lighting gets applied - but such a drastic change in colouring and lighting shouldn't be happening (and I don't remember seeing it happen so badly in 2020).

I wouldn't say it has to be an improvement just because no-one's complaining about it. Maybe they just haven't noticed (!!) ... or maybe they spend more time *flying* than composing [still] screenshots (like I do!). Each to his own!

Compared to other more serious issues, it's not exactly earth-shattering - I just think it's a shame when things are touted as "improvements" when I think they're actually a step backwards.

8 hours ago, Adamski_NZ said:

I played around with the GFE Details filter, but found it didn't really help that much with the original problem. I could certainly get the cockpits to look better, but then the external views were a bit of a mess (and vice-versa).

So .. I went back to using my Reshade "zoom-in" preset, which gave me much more control (compared to GFE filters) and could also be toggled on/off (or go to previous/next preset) with simple keybinds.

Sorry that didn't help Adamski and I would like to see Reshade but not sure where to start!  Is 'Reshade' an app with different presets?  Do I install a base app then?

That's remarkable, the 'but then the external views were a bit of a mess' part.  Can you describe that because as I mentioned here, the difference is primarily just a bit more cloud and other definition which seems to be a good thing as I say here.  Did you adjust with sliders the different parameters presumably?

Cheers

Edited April 4, 20251 yr by Noel

8 hours ago, Noel said:

... I would like to see Reshade but not sure where to start!  Is 'Reshade' an app with different presets?  Do I install a base app then?

That's remarkable, the 'but then the external views were a bit of a mess' part.  Can you describe that because as I mentioned here, the difference is primarily just a bit more cloud and other definition which seems to be a good thing as I say here.  Did you adjust with sliders the different parameters presumably?

Reshade isn't a separate app as such. It installs a couple of [new] DLLs into your MSFS root directory. On installation, you get the option of downloading loads of filters. There are dozens of them, but if you see any of the "Prod80" ones being offered, just grab those. Any less useful filters are easily removed (directly from the filters folder) later on. Unless triggered by the hotkey, I don't think the Reshade DLLs impact MSFS in any way. Uninstallation is easy: just delete those DLLs and the Reshade folders.

In operation, it's really quite simple. When in the sim, one hotkey brings up an overlay panel where you can select presets and alter their parameters. Other hotkeys toggle the effects or step forwards & backwards through your presets. It's a LOT more configurable than GFE - and has many more available functions.The GUI is comprehensive, yet easy to use.

Back to my experience with GFE. Bear in mind I was mainly trying to balance out tonal and colouring shifts when zoomed in - any tweaks that corrected things in the cockpit  (eg. brightening up shadows) then over-brightened the scene externally. Similarly, any saturation tweaks for zoomed in terrain made the cockpit look ghastly.

The beauty of Reshade is that I can used one good all-purpose preset for cockpit and default external views then quickly flip to an alternative preset for when zoomed in externally.

Edited April 4, 20251 yr by Adamski_NZ

Thank you for that I think when the last time I looked at Reshade I wasn't sure where to start but should have another investigation.  I don't suffer from the side effects you noticed w/ the Details filter which is the only one I ever use and use it in both sims.  It does have a very modest perf impact though not for frame rates but with quality of rapid panning is it, but it's still quite good in that regard.

30 minutes ago, Adamski_NZ said:

There are dozens of them, but if you see any of the "Prod80" ones being offered, just grab those.

Which particular Prod80 filter(s) are you finding addresses your aim the most if you will?  I found the app and the github for Prod80.

13 hours ago, Adamski_NZ said:

Maybe I've just got used to how 2024 looks, but the more I look at it (now) I think you're right. It's decidedly "grubby" or "muddy" compared to (I think) how I remember 2020 used to look.

I can relate to this I see what you mean.   I wonder if dialing ambient occlusion might help some with that.

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Which particular Prod80 filter(s) are you finding addresses your aim the most if you will?  I found the app and the github for Prod80.

They're mainly to do with tone/contrast/colour correction and overlap slightly:

LiftGammaGain
Prod80_03_Shadows_Midtones_Highlights
Prod80_04_ContrastBrightnessSaturation
Prod80_04_ColorBalance

1 hour ago, Noel said:

I can relate to this I see what you mean.   I wonder if dialing ambient occlusion might help some with that.

I'll try fiddling with that ... though I think I already did 😉