15 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Can't say I'm overwhelmed with joy with it. I expect that's due to the default planes and bugs. I don't notice any graphical improvements?  Much prefer 2020.

And well you shouldn't be as already, a lousy 72h later, 2024 is only just starting to run somewhat as anticipated clearly for some and yet we're undoubtedly still being impacted by higher than what will become ongoing server demand.  That being the case stay tuned over the next few weeks as the hotfix arrives then perhaps a few more.  IOW it's smart to let things continue to settle before drawing conclusions about anything including graphical improvements.  

And of course 2020 is the MATURE SIM, greatly debugged, totally useable with a full complement of debugged addons.  I won't be leaving 2020 until I can pretty much do in 2024 what I do in 2020 which involves the planes and addons in my sig.  And I've not even installed 2024 and won't until the dust clears which I said on Day 1 will likely be in 2-3 weeks or so, that is not to leave 2020 for 2024, but to install 2024 w/ its hotfix(s) and then only to dabble in GA flights and have a look at firefighting and medical transports.  Even w/ the comparatively lame P3D v4.x I kept it on my PC for 6 months post 2020 release so I anticipate 2020 will remain my go to sim for many months to come, AS FULLY EXPECTED w/ a sim update as big as 2024 is.

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by Noel

1 hour ago, Rocky_53 said:

Hi Bert, sure, I hear what you're saying. Perhaps I should have expanded on my post a little. My point, which I probably didn't explain properly, is that by implementing all the different aspects, including career mode, walkarounds etc etc, are at the expense of time spent making the exisiting 2020 better. Clearly, if you are developing a sim to incorporate so many variables, then it has to be at the expense of the base sim improvements, IMO anyway. Not to mention the different audiences the varying aspects of the sim are aimed at. BTW, you mention the 'core simmer,' (enthusiasts) I mentioned that, only because I believe that's the term Asobo used to describe one of three users of the sim  

2 hours ago, Rocky_53 said:

If MS were really concerned with the core simming community, they could have developed a decent ATC and AI, and numerous other issues with 2020 that have been logged since the sim's release. Sure, trees and terrain are better in 2024, but could this not have been implemented into 2020? What about a 2020 major design update, correct ATC, AI, flight dynamics, improved lighting and LOD, better rendered trees eg. and call it 'MS 2020 pro' or 'MS 2020X?' Then release 2024 for the gamers and those who want to go wallking alongside rivers and go camping, and all the other aspects of 2024 that have been introduced such as fire fighting and career mode, which I would think most of the core simmers have no interest in anyway. 

 

First and foremost, Microsoft is a company, and their #1 goal like any company, is to make money. Secondly, they worked on a lot of stuff to satisfy the "hard core" flight sim enthusiast in MSFS 2024, including improved physics for the flight model, ground handling, and water physics.  Specifically for the flight model and ground handling, the "hard core" flight sim enthusiasts were badgering the MSFS team over 4 years to fix it. And they did a very good job in MSFS 2024.  Also, there are LIDO charts now for free in MSFS 2024, another benefit to "hard core" flight sim enthusiasts that want to save a little money if they are subscribed to Navigraph.

But finally, I think you miss the point as to why Microsoft is continually pushing to improve the ground scenery and terrain, and why probably every version of MSFS from now on will see improvements in it (I expect MSFS 2028 to improve it further).  It's because Microsoft wants to make a very detailed digital twin earth. There is a lot of money in that and they know it.  Game companies, tourism companies, search and rescue organizations, etc, will be very interested in a digital twin earth if it's very detailed and accurate enough. So Microsoft will never stop improving the digital twin earth, and we are lucky to tag along their advancements in the digital twin earth with every successive MSFS that comes out.

Edited November 22, 20241 yr by abrams_tank

6 hours ago, El Diablito said:

I have no interest in getting into a mud slinging match but this is just utter nonsense.

So because there's never been a positive release of any sort by this company people should just roll over, pay their money and keep their complaints to themselves?

Would it be too much trouble to ask for one release that went well? Heck, is asking for two a bridge too far? People are well within their rights to "rage" as you say because for too long they've handed over money and felt hard done by. Its not just with the sim either. People settle for mediocrity far too easily, everywhere. It feels like these large companies know this only too well.

You wouldn't buy a car with no wheels and no windscreen and wait for the manufacturer to update you down the line. It would also be unbelievable for people to think you weren't within your rights to complain.

The fact that 2020 servers are taking a hit because of this is inexcusable and Microsoft deserve all the negativity coming their way for it, until they earn the respect too many on here are far too quick to give out.

Yeah they make a great sim but this time, prove it.

Nope. Just...Nope.

It's fine to complain - the frustrations are real, especially given all the promising new features.

But so many seem to have such unrealistic expectations, as though problems similar to this launch aren't encountered every day in other areas of real life / gaming / whatevs.

Like if you go to see a hot new movie on the night it premiers, you're going to wait in long lines, and if the movie is popular enough, you may have to wait for a later showing, or might even have to come back another day.

The MSFS launch is the digital equivalent - too many people showed up all at once, and "seating capacity" was exceeded. It happens, and nobody's missing out on anything tangible because we can just get up from our desks and go do something else for awhile.

The outrage over the launch issues has been blown completely out of proportion. It's a classic example, perhaps a seminal one, on First World "Problems". Time for many of us to go touch grass.

 

21 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Can't say I'm overwhelmed with joy with it. I expect that's due to the default planes and bugs. I don't notice any graphical improvements?  Much prefer 2020.

You don't like the default planes? Even the new ones?

Generally speaking they're good enough that I'm probably going to skip a bunch of payware purchases that I might have otherwise made. I have a few favorite High Fidelity addons for when I'm playing "serious simmer", but this crop of defaults is quite enjoyable and certainly deep enough to hold interest and provide a challenge to fly properly.

Graphics I think will come after you have time to tweak your settings. I'm gradually doing that between flights, and the graphics are rapidly improving.

Remember: half of simming isn't flying, it's "tweaking" 😁

15 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

The outrage over the launch issues has been blown completely out of proportion.

This is a HABIT for several people in this forum, abject hysteria, zero appreciation for context.  I would expect that from newbies but here w/ veteran simmers?  More lame than the server overload driving the hysteria.  I'm amazed any of the usual whining hysterics can even operate a console let along a PC.

And I have no doubts the remaining high server demand which will undoubtedly settle out more and more over the coming weeks will be what is needed to showcase the improvements built in to 2024 including graphics.

Terrible launch on one of the biggest franchises in history. However, things are starting to improve and have now had three IFR flights with the Max. Buggy plane but it's all onwards with 2024. Ultra graphics and the scenery at the airports I've ported over is gorgeous. Especially KLGA which has been made 2024 compatible as noted on SimMarket.

OK, the environment has changed significantly from the launch day debacle, and since more and more of the posts are going south into personal bickering, I'm going to close this now.