Now that //42's Flow Essentials includes a landing FPM widget, I'm confronted with my landing FPM values and I feel triggered.

My question to you all is what is considered a good landing value with the B737 or A320? I've Googled this and found some conflicting numbers.

My thought is that anything below 300 is pretty good and a good compromise between floating beyond a 'legal' touch down and pranging it on. 

What say you?

3 minutes ago, RichieFly said:

Now that //42's Flow Essentials includes a landing FPM widget, I'm confronted with my landing FPM values and I feel triggered.

My question to you all is what is considered a good landing value with the B737 or A320? I've Googled this and found some conflicting numbers.

My thought is that anything below 300 is pretty good and a good compromise between floating beyond a 'legal' touch down and pranging it on. 

What say you?

I average in the 200 FPM range. 

I had a discussion with Aamir (Fenix Dev) about this.

The important thing to consider is the FPM metric is not consistent, yet has become the gold standard by which flight simmers rate their landing. It does not trigger when you actually land; instead it is a polling interval that can vary greatly. It is why sometimes you think you've buttered a landng but get high landing rate, or think you've smashed it and get a low rate.

Also, there is no compromise on a legal landing. You need to hit the centerline and in the markers. Once you are consistenty doing that you can work on the butter.

The vAAL I am in (American) accepts without commentary anything under 500. 500-600, you need to attach a note about why,

The more important number is the g force on landing. I *think* around 1.65g is where the aircraft needs a maintenance check, but I am not certain.

Honestly, your sim life will be a lot more rewarding if you stop chasing after that number.

Flaring to land is like squatting to pee...

I was lucky enough to jump seat with SWA years ago and the discussion with them (landing at KDAL which is not providing long runways) was to not waste runway trying to smooth one on and simply let the aircraft land. Also too, Delta pilots don't mess around either, presumably since most of them, at the time, were Navy carrier pilots.

2 hours ago, RichieFly said:

What say you?

More number chasing.

2 hours ago, RichieFly said:

Now that //42's Flow Essentials includes a landing FPM widget, I'm confronted with my landing FPM values and I feel triggered.

My question to you all is what is considered a good landing value with the B737 or A320? I've Googled this and found some conflicting numbers.

My thought is that anything below 300 is pretty good and a good compromise between floating beyond a 'legal' touch down and pranging it on. 

What say you?

Are you talking about impressing your fellow sim-fan-boys, or are you talking real world?   I'm being serious.

I real life, coaxing the airplane for a smooth landing is frowned upon if it is a turbojet, transport category airplane.  A smooth, "butter" landing is incidental.  Too many real pilots who didn't understand that simple fact found themselves reassessing their decision making processes after their aircraft ran off the end of the runway. 

Instead of worrying about your landing rate, worry more about where the main wheels touched down at on the runway.  1500 ft is generally considered ideal for a normal landing where the pilot is not trying to intentionally touchdown on the 1000' marks. A nominal landing, with a typical 7 second flare from the crossing the threshold to touchdown will typically put the airplane on or around the 1500' point.  If you're not down by the 2000' point, you're doing something wrong.  If you go beyond that and the runway is short, 7000' or less, you set yourself for a runway excursion. 

A firm landing between 1000' to 2000' is far more important than any landing rate.  By certification standards, touchdown rates up 8 ft./sec or 480 ft/min is acceptable.  A hard landing requiring an inspection is typically anything over 6 ft./sec. or 360 ft/min.  Anything under that where main wheels are on the runway around 1500' point is acceptable from a piloting and passenger comfort point of view. 

A smooth landing may make you the hero of passengers for the moment, but that will short lived if you need call the bus to take them to the terminal building when your airplane is sitting in the mud off the end of the runway. 

Rich Boll

50 minutes ago, Flyfaster_MTN002 said:

Flaring to land is like squatting to pee...

This is the most ludicrous thing I’ve read lately. Nonetheless it still made me LOL

2 hours ago, V1ROTA7E said:

This is the most ludicrous thing I’ve read lately. Nonetheless it still made me LOL

Is an old carrier pilot quote... followed closely by:

"any landing you walk away from is a good one"

2 hours ago, richjb2 said:

Are you talking about impressing your fellow sim-fan-boys, or are you talking real world?   I'm being serious.

,,,

Rich Boll

I wish I had fan boys 🙂

I'm asking in terms of real-world and what is considered a hard landing.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. 

As another said above, I think I'm just chasing numbers here and only began this dark path after Flow Essentials added the FPM read-out. Although, I like how it shows you where you touched down.

G force is more important than fpm, Hard landing inspections based on g force at touch down. For example; for airbus 320 2.6 g is limit with normal landing weights. 

7 hours ago, BrammyH said:

 

The more important number is the g force on landing. I *think* around 1.65g is where the aircraft needs a maintenance check, but I am not certain.

 

IRL on the 757/767 I used to fly you’d have a little printer that would churn out a landing report and if it was over 1.8G we’d need a hard landing inspection. Not sure if that varied from operator to operator and between types though. 
 

The important bit in the Boeing FCTM says

 

”FCTM – Floating above the runway before touchdown must be avoided because it uses a large portion of the available runway. The aircraft should be landed as near the normal touchdown point as possible. Deceleration rate on the runway is approximately three times greater than in the air.”

 

So being in the right place is far more important than FPM or G.

For reference though IRL, on the 787 I fly we’re told (by our training department) we should be aiming for 100 to 150fpm 

Edited October 23, 20232 yr by g-liner

2 hours ago, g-liner said:

For reference though IRL, on the 787 I fly we’re told (by our training department) we should be aiming for 100 to 150fpm

Any live feeds I watch on youtube from EGLL or KLAX, it seems the 787, A350 and A380s all land softer than feathers compared to their smaller cousins, the struts barely move. It's inspiring to watch.

I got infatuated with landing rate after watching too many CptCanada vids. If I had anything higher than 1.20 I was slightly miffed. What fool am I? 🙄

21 minutes ago, El Diablito said:

Any live feeds I watch on youtube from EGLL or KLAX, it seems the 787, A350 and A380s all land softer than feathers compared to their smaller cousins, the struts barely move. It's inspiring to watch.

I got infatuated with landing rate after watching too many CptCanada vids. If I had anything higher than 1.20 I was slightly miffed. What fool am I? 🙄

It’s just an aspect of the sim and IRL flying and people like trying to improve or do well. Don’t think real pilots don’t obsess about smooth landings though.
 

The worst is when you bang it in IRL and then nobody says anything in the flightdeck as you all know it was rubbish, then you leave the flightdeck and you get (usually unconstructive) feedback from the passengers and crew. 
 

It’s all in your mind though. Like any skill if you know how to do it and have a repeatable technique and relax it usually works out. So I usually back myself and announce it’s going to be awesome on final and then it’s more entertaining for the f/o when it isn’t. 
 

Obviously the weather, runway and aircraft weight plus the aircraft type and geometry of the gear etc all make a difference too. 
 

The 787 is particularly easy to land smoothly though especially with the HUD. It really is a fantastic aircraft to fly IRL and now in the sim thanks to WT also. 

Edited October 23, 20232 yr by g-liner

10 hours ago, RichieFly said:

I wish I had fan boys 🙂

I'm asking in terms of real-world and what is considered a hard landing.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. 

As another said above, I think I'm just chasing numbers here and only began this dark path after Flow Essentials added the FPM read-out. Although, I like how it shows you where you touched down.

I did not intend to be disparaging with my comment.  My apologies if that's how it came across.

I get a little frustrated at all videos I watch where folks are so interested in the "butter" landing.  If you did that in my jet, you'd would get a stern de-briefing. 

Check the landing tutorials by FlightDeck2Sim.  He's about the best out there.  Yes, on his streams he chase the butter, but he's quick to point out that this now how it does it in his B737 when it's for real.