While researching TBM data to see if I could get a better idea of proper touchdown technique, I stumbled across this recommended sequence for a precision approach from Daher.  Apparently, a number of pilots/owners had been touching down at too steep of an angle and there had been a number of propeller strikes (that's one heck of a big prop out there).  Basically, they stated that you shouldn't bring it in at a high rate, don't chop it over the threshold and be sure to touch down in 3 to 7 degree nose-up attitude.  Here is their recommended procedure:

On precision approaches at maximum gross weight, the steps begin with...

--Power reduction to 35 percent torque, which yields approximately 150 KIAS.

--At two dots above the glideslope, extend the landing gear.

--At one dot above the glide-slope, extend the flaps to the first, takeoff position.

--At glideslope intercept, reduce power to 22 percent torque, leave it there, and go to full flaps.

--The airplane will slow to the recommended 85 KIAS (with an acceptable deviation of minus 5 knots/plus 10 knots) as it follows the glideslope to the runway.

--It’s important to trim for 85 KIAS so that you won’t be nose heavy and holding excessive back-pressure during the flare and touchdown.

--Additionally, at 50 feet agl, make sure that torque is at or slightly above 10 percent; this also prevents the airplane from becoming nose-heavy as the threshold nears.

--Right before touchdown, begin adding back-pressure for the flare.

--Going to flight idle should be delayed until immediately before touchdown—at which point you should be holding the nose at the 3-to-7-degree “sweet spot” pitch attitude.

I have now made two approaches using this technique and both landings were very sweet!  I will state that the performance doesn't match up exactly.  Note that the procedure is based on max gross weight, so I don't know if the fact that I was comfortably below gross on both approaches or if it is a mismatch in the sim's performance (using the mod) or both.

For example, at 35% torque she was running around 170 KIAS - I had to pull back quite a bit more to get around 150 KIAS.  I followed their procedure on gear and flaps, then I adjusted the torque to hold 85 KIAS.  They really pushed this speed for the approach so I tried to hold it there.  I followed the rest of their procedure for power reduction and the flare and she touched down beautifully.

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by RandallR

How strange we rarely ever do approaches let alone landings at Max Gross

Exactly - that phrase caught me a little off guard.  Maybe they were trying to emphasize that this technique would be appropriate for all landings - even at max gross landing weight?

Daher was apparently running a precision approach contest for owners when they put out this procedure.  I wonder if the variance they give in the final approach - 85 KIAS (with an acceptable deviation of minus 5 knots/plus 10 knots) relates to the aircraft's response to varying loads.

That procedure is typical of larger, high performance planes. I jumped basically from a Cessna 172 to a Baron when I did the commercial multiengine add-on rating. To land the Baron you leave a little power in as you cross the threshold and enter ground effect, set the landing attitude, then work the power out. Chop the power like in a trainer and it is going to hurt 🤪

Basically each airplane has own sweet spot for instrument approach and it not necessarily has to be recommended speed (unless there are certain company rules and etc). For example  in 172 I prefer to shoot approaches  at 90 kts with 10 degrees flaps while my buddy likes at 85 knots with flaps 20. So as long as you feel comfortable with approach  within reasonable margins of safety you good to go 🙂

The comments around the procedure by the Daher staff was interesting.  They said whatever you do, don't come in hot and chop it (you float) and don't land level or push down, as you need to be nose-high or will be in danger of a prop strike.  Apparently, when level, the large prop is only inches off the ground.

Interesting on the variance with the 172.  When I flew her, I used power off at 70-75 kts and 10 deg flaps.  If I was low, I would add a little throttle to cross the threshold.  If high, I'd put in another notch of flaps.  My goal was always to pull the throttle on downwind and not touch it again.

1 hour ago, RandallR said:

The comments around the procedure by the Daher staff was interesting.  They said whatever you do, don't come in hot and chop it (you float) and don't land level or push down, as you need to be nose-high or will be in danger of a prop strike.  Apparently, when level, the large prop is only inches off the ground.

Interesting on the variance with the 172.  When I flew her, I used power off at 70-75 kts and 10 deg flaps.  If I was low, I would add a little throttle to cross the threshold.  If high, I'd put in another notch of flaps.  My goal was always to pull the throttle on downwind and not touch it again.

172 is flaring beast for sure! Heavier GA drop pretty much where you cut the power. Once I was giving BFR for my friend who owns Bonanza which at the time  was at the shop. So  we did his BFR in  my 172. Boy did he struggle to land and floated forever lol

 

Now in MSFS most airplanes are floaty this not reflected real life for sure 

Nice to see the recommend procedure and know that it roughly works in terms of speeds.  Maybe Daher provided some feedback on the in sim version.  Interesting to see exactly the number of degrees to flare and when to pull power. 

90kts was where I settled on flying precision approaches when the sim first came out and I was flying a lot of TBM930 approaches.  I might have googled around for a flight test report article or something like that to find that (or maybe I watched a bunch of youtube videos of someone landing the real aircraft?).  It worked well and seems to fall in their recommended range.

Edited January 21, 20215 yr by marsman2020

Low wing laminar flow planes like the Mooney have a rep of being floaty. Cessnas not so much, especially with the old school 40 degree flap models 😄

 

As far as power in flare it is not surprising, AFAIK the FAA has been recommending power on landings for most light aircraft since the 1970's .

 

EXAMPLE:  the FAA "correct" procedure for a Cessna 152 is NOT chop power and keep pulling the stick back  😄 -  it is more or less something like this (from memory):

• Opposite the proposed touchdown point on the runway reduce power and decelerate to 60 knots and apply 10 degrees flap, maintain 1500 rpm
• Turn base leg when runway numbers are at a 45-degree angle behind wing. maintain 1500 rpm  20 degrees flap  70 knots
• Turn final, 30 degree flap  reduce speed to 60 Knots
• Flare with 30 degree flaps maintain 1500 rpm
• power to idle on touchdown

I have tried this in game and it gives a pretty flawless approach and "greased" landing in the default C152 pretty much every time

23 hours ago, RandallR said:

While researching TBM data to see if I could get a better idea of proper touchdown technique, I stumbled across this recommended sequence for a precision approach from Daher. 

Do you have a link?

8 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Low wing laminar flow planes like the Mooney have a rep of being floaty. Cessnas not so much, especially with the old school 40 degree flap models 😄

 

As far as power in flare it is not surprising, AFAIK the FAA has been recommending power on landings for most light aircraft since the 1970's .

 

EXAMPLE:  the FAA "correct" procedure for a Cessna 152 is NOT chop power and keep pulling the stick back  😄 -  it is more or less something like this (from memory):

• Opposite the proposed touchdown point on the runway reduce power and decelerate to 60 knots and apply 10 degrees flap, maintain 1500 rpm
• Turn base leg when runway numbers are at a 45-degree angle behind wing. maintain 1500 rpm  20 degrees flap  70 knots
• Turn final, 30 degree flap  reduce speed to 60 Knots
• Flare with 30 degree flaps maintain 1500 rpm
• power to idle on touchdown

I have tried this in game and it gives a pretty flawless approach and "greased" landing in the default C152 pretty much every time

That is not what the 152 POH says, and I doubt that's what the FAA says either, as they don't give recommended procedures for specific planes. Where do you get this from? And you're missing the other thing: altitude. What do you start from? I would bet money that if you started this abeam the numbers at 1000 feet you will come up a half mile short of the threshold. 

At max gross is the key phrase. Which you are basically never at for landing. This would mean slower speeds at lighter weights, but it's good information. And yes, be exact about your speeds. It's the key to landing any plane well. If you're supposed to be at 85, be at 85. Not 90, not 80. 

Edited January 21, 20215 yr by mtr75

On 1/20/2021 at 1:25 AM, RandallR said:

While researching TBM data to see if I could get a better idea of proper touchdown technique, I stumbled across this recommended sequence for a precision approach from Daher.  Apparently, a number of pilots/owners had been touching down at too steep of an angle and there had been a number of propeller strikes (that's one heck of a big prop out there).  Basically, they stated that you shouldn't bring it in at a high rate, don't chop it over the threshold and be sure to touch down in 3 to 7 degree nose-up attitude.  Here is their recommended procedure:

--It’s important to trim for 85 KIAS so that you won’t be nose heavy and holding excessive back-pressure during the flare and touchdown.

 

Thanks for posting this from Daher! Nice to know that I have been aiming for 85 KIAS on approach in the TBM and stating this in my videos. When reading the real life TBM forums, some prefer 90 and some low 80’s. So basically 85 is the sweet spot.

10 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Do you have a link?

Yes: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2021/january/pilot/turbine-pilot-tbm-technique.

The article is titled: TBM Technique: Landing in style - Prop-strike prevention 101

As I searched back to find the article, I discovered that this was published by the AOPA and came from a body of research that was collected and then taught by TBM instructors at Orlando’s Simcom Aviation Training Center.  Go about 80% down the web page to the paragraph that begins:

For example, on precision approaches at maximum gross weight, the steps begin with a power reduction to 35 percent torque...

This is where I gleaned the procedures.  They end with this statement:

It all boils down to this: Fly final at an appropriately slow airspeed, reach 1.3 VSO on short final, and flare to hold the nose up for a full-stall touchdown. If this sounds anything at all like the approach and landing profile you’d perform for any high-performance single, you’re right.

56 minutes ago, Doering said:

Thanks for posting this from Daher! Nice to know that I have been aiming for 85 KIAS on approach in the TBM and stating this in my videos. When reading the real life TBM forums, some prefer 90 and some low 80’s. So basically 85 is the sweet spot.

It turns out this was from the Orlando Simcom Aviation Training Center and published by the AOPA.