LOL.... someone said they were upset that The Carenado people would not talk to their customers. I get it. But stop and think....if these brain surgeons made themselves availiable then every thread would be closed in less than 10 minutes.  All the Mods would be jumping off the top of their computer cases trying to commit computerside!!  :t0105:

I do have a theory about this whole Carenado thing. I believe that when Prepar3d came on board they saw all the threads here which the experts were screaming that for one reason or another, we were not allow to have fun or enjoy flight simming on Prepar3d. They thought that they had found a nitch to up sales and sure enough none of their stuff for P3d is fun or entertaining and therefore completely legal. We have just mis-understood their business plan. 

Carenado are ok but when you put their products/prices in relation to some other developers out there, it doesn't look so good. I still buy some of their stuff but I think the price point is what's hurting them PR-wise. If their stuff would be priced maybe 10$/€ less or so, you wouldn't hear half as much complaining, however, when they charge the same as, for example, A2A Simulations then they most certainly have to be prepared for criticism. Frankly though, I don't think they care because they have next to zero communication with the community, they just release a service pack or two then they leave their products in the dust even if there are still glaring flaws/bugs. People still keep buying their stuff even though they swear they never will again so yeah, vote with your wallets or this will never change. Complaining on the forum won't help because there are nobody here from Carenado who really listens and cares, they should get a community PR/support person, someone like Lewis over at A2A. If they actually care, that is. I don't think they do, for example, repainters have been criticising Carenado/Alabeo for ages about how cumbersome repainting is on their planes yet they have done nothing to address this issue.

Well what this topic certainly is proving is that the OP assertion was utterly erroneous - it's not our expectations that are too high, it's that in the opinion of those who know and understand the delivery is far below value. Is that a price point issue ? Or one of continued under-performance by the developer in the qualitative stakes ? 

 

Either way it's the honest opinion that counts. No issue with those who have taken an opposite stance here, but everyone else will judge whether you have proved your point. Let's continue with the honest writings - because that's what the prospective customer needs from an unofficial forum.

Lots of negativity here, but I'm almost 100% sure each poster here has purchased at least one Carenado product and will continue to do so (whether publicly acknowledged or not) regardless of the problems most of their planes have out of the gate. Carenado is still hands down the best eye candy producer out there.. and that may just be enough for people to continue funding their projects. 

 

Given how many passionate posts people have produced on this topic, it's pretty clear that my point was made. Lots of opinions from people about how Carenado should develop their products (as well as a good heaping of frustration when they fail to meet those expectations over and over again). In the end, they will continue to sell you their goods because there's nothing better in the market space they represent at the moment which produces multiple AC per year like Carenado does.

I, honestly, think it's time to reevaluate Carenado.  There are many reasons why people are on different pages about them.  People who mostly fly VFR at low levels would, likely, love them.  People that fly more IFR at higher altitudes, probably won't.  I don't think it will be wise to expect their systems to change and amount of bugs to change nor do I expect them to fix even easy bugs after SP2 (I was astonished with how easy it was to fix some bugs in the PA46 and they were just ignoring the requests!).  They ignore customers and nothing we do...nothing we can say...to get them to change.  They would have done that already if they were going to.  I think we're doing a lot to try to change each other's opinion...my own opinion is love/hate.  I wouldn't be caught dead in any of their glass aircraft.  Their steam airplanes are better and, usually, fixable.  A2A is getting better in steam so I'm leaning more that way.  A2A gets the gold stars that Carenado used to get for good reason...they actually take time to know the airplane...something I don't think Carenado will ever do.

Such a nice guy. Instead of alerting everyone to buy, over-priced and at times over-rated products from Carenado, or ANYONE, let's say, yeah buy it, then afterwards say bad luck sucker if he doesn't like it.

 

Problem with reading 'reviews', too many from the 13 year old 'eye candy' flight sim hobiest. Yeah it's awesome they say. Sad to say, often it's not. But who to believe?

 

You see, somebody writes a review or comment, negative, and everyone jumps on them because if you buy a Carenado, it MUST be good right? Sad to say, no.

 

So if you're not a pilot, you're ignored.

If you're not a pilot, it must be unfair critisim.

If you ARE a pilot and say it's over priced, overrated, fair comment.

 

And everyone else is ignored and condsidered rude and writing unwarranted critisim.

 

Personally, I'd rather write honestly, and alert somebody so it mig save them some hard earned cash.

 

$30 is a case of beer or two? Really? Where? Lol.

 

 

Aren't all those threads about the same?  There is a consistency to them.  I think its safe to say you can gather these things from all the Carenado review/threads

 

Lots of eye candy

Looks pretty (tho pretty is not always 'realistic', especially for bush planes )

Systems lite

FDE's hit and miss...some quite good, some not.

Initial releases tend to be buggy, tho there are often fixes and tweaks from the talented folks here. 

Customer support can be questionable, but again can often get help from the talented folks here.

Cost per release is obviously a controversial topic.

 

If your criteria for your FS enjoyment is not affected by this consensus, and you enjoy yourself, thats great. There are lots of people who enjoy exploring scenery and taking screenshots, The Carenado releases obviously fill the bill for them.  Carenado is not suffering for business, and neither is A2A.  They both fill respective roles that will continue as long as there is an FS hobby.  

 

If you are still unsure of what to expect from Carenado, you can even go to Flight1 and get a Carenado release (altho not the more recent ones), try it out, and return for refund.   Tho I suppose it does make you wonder why F1 stopped carrying Carenado lol. 

 

All in all, you can get a pretty good idea of what to expect even without loosing 30-40 bucks.  And if you lost 30-40 bucks, it sucks but not the worst thing in the world.  

 

BTW my beer cost is based on Costco standard LOL  a case of 24 bottles ~ 20-30 bucks

 

Cheers

TJ

I can't help but think that sells have suffered recently, the interests in their planes, especially after their release of the S550 Citation seem to have dropped off across the forums. Hopefully if this is the case Carenado will finally start to listen to its customers.....yeah I know keep dreaming B)

 

 

I can't help but think that sells have suffered recently, the interests in their planes, especially after their release of the S550 Citation seem to have dropped off across the forums. Hopefully if this is the case Carenado will finally start to listen to its customers.....yeah I know keep dreaming B)

 

I wanted to add, for me, the eye-opener was the PC12.  I just didn't think they made even a reasonable attempt to make it work like a PC12...more like a nice looking version of a default airplane.  The switches were not right, important functionality was completely missing.  If they can't get a PC12 even close to right, I didn't feel like they'd be anywhere near the ballpark for any of their jets.  Add to that the fact that they're trying to use frame killing XML GPS systems...it wasn't going to work.  The planes look nice...they fly nice...but if you want to have any kind of functional behavior of flying one of these jets, it's not there.  Good for sightseeing and pleasurable for moving through the sky...but no point in clicking on things...it may or may not do anything you might expect it should.  As I said, I still bought the 404 so I'm not that angry...but I'm fully aware of their limitations.

Lots of negativity here, but I'm almost 100% sure each poster here has purchased at least one Carenado product and will continue to do so.....

 My biggest problem with Carenado is not that they produce "lite" buggy products but that their rapid development cycle and (historically, though changing) low price structure create a bit of stagnant marketspace for other, more thorough and thoughtful developers. As an example, the PC-12 that Gregg mentions. There was a hungry market for an updated PC-12 simulation. Carenado slaked a large part of that marketspace with their offering. How long will it be now before another more thorough, thoughtful developer will get enough demand to risk a more detailed simulation?

 

I have one product from Carenado, the C-337. It is just good enough. But the PC-12 reviews and the subsequent deflated market space swore me off any other purchases from them. Glad the community as a whole was "negative" and honest.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am not one for denying anyone that freedom, but I also don't see any of us running out to start our own competitive company in the same market space so we can deliver 'better quality' than what Carenado has produced. Other vendors such as A2A (and some might even say Eaglesoft, although I'm not a fan) might have higher quality on some of their planes, but their release schedule is limited and their portfolio is a far cry from the number of planes Carenado have produced.

 

In the end, it's a tough balance between producing high quality planes that take years of development (and missed windows of opportunities as the market evolves out from under you), or producing 'good enough' planes that meet the demands of the consumer market TODAY.

 

As an aside, I think we're all in agreement that we would be less negative about a buggy plane out of the gate if Carenado focused more attention on support and fixes for their line of add-ons, but to expect one of their releases to be perfect for all fliers (VFR, IFR, casual simmers, study level simmers, etc) is setting expectations way too high.

 

 

Other vendors such as A2A (and some might even say Eaglesoft, although I'm not a fan) might have higher quality on some of their planes, but their release schedule is limited and their portfolio is a far cry from the number of planes Carenado have produced.

 

Carenado seems content with cranking out a lot of different models, but the quality is consistently low. Maybe they should focus on less quantity and more quality. Whomever called them the "MacDonalds" of flight simming was correct.

What people don't understand is that for me it's ok to pay $50 as long as you get what you are promised.

That quote in post above says it all. ######

 

On the other hand after flying the NGX for several months I went and bought the 777 two days ago. $89 and I'm super happy so I'm sure I will get the -300 expansion soon. 

 

That's what those cheap developers do not get. In the end they will loose. They lost me and that's few hundred $$ down the road for sure.

Only way to make them rethink their "milk the fools for eye candy" strategy. Don't buy 2-3 next of their planes and I bet you now, plane #4 will be awesome.

 

Put your money where your mouth is or don't complain

but to expect one of their releases to be perfect for all fliers (VFR, IFR, casual simmers, study level simmers, etc) is setting expectations way too high.

 

That has never been the expectation.

 

If Carenado want to silence (most of) their critics, imho this is what they need to do:

• Decide what level of quality they want to achieve (in visuals, FDE, systems etc)
• Tell us openly what they want to achieve, less marketing BS
• Price accordingly (bearing in mind that high prices put them in direct competition with A2A, RealAir etc, companies that score highly in all areas of quality)
• Release planes to their target level of quality, but with less bugs and intelligent decisions made about the simplification (e.g. no "push to flash" buttons, to take C525B's example)
• When bugs are found (and they will be), respond promptly and don't just throw a couple of half hearted SP's out and move on
• Don't keep making the same silly mistakes

 

I don't believe any of the above should be particularly controversial, and note, none of that says "go toe to toe with A2A on fidelity" or fundamentally goes against their current offering model of high visual fidelity, low systems fidelity and reasonable-to-good FDE (for which there is a definite market, even if I'm not a natural part of it), but it's just about showing that they take pride in their work, rather than the current model of pile em high, sell em (not very) cheap....

 

If you want a good example of a company with a similar offering type (i.e. pretty but otherwise relatively casual) as Carenado but one that gets it right, I'd suggest Lionheart.  Now no-one is ever going to suggest they are giving A2A sleepless nights, but their products are generally well tested, well supported, fun to fly and priced reasonably.  Clearly Carendao are a bigger operation and certainly have better texture artists, but if they took the same care in building and supporting their aircraft as Lionheart, then I doubt there would be nearly so many people crying foul.

 

As for me, I will continue to watch Carendao releases, more in hope than in expectation, and if they address the above concerns I will gladly buy from them.  If they don't, well, I've got enough high quality aircraft I haven't yet fully mastered to last me a long while.....

Just as a side note, I checked Google Trends shows a steady strength at Carenado...

 

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=carenado

 

Note that most of the traffic is from Spain, Argentina and Chile.

Hmmm:

 

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%22fsx%22

 

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=p3d

 

https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=xplane