Have Carenado had anything to say on the balloon effect when selecting full flaps? they said it was tested by real world pilots.

I just wrote today on this. I wouldn't expect to hear back from them until tomorrow...

Does anybody else see the tilting problem while on the ground? If I put on the brakes the nose wheel sinks into the ground for a second. Also on pushback when I stop it tilts to the back and then bounces back. Do I have to change some brake settings or something? I noticed the floating as well, hopefully this gets addressed

It is not uncommon to have the aircraft baloon up when the flaps are deployed. Think of it like this: when you stick your hand out the window of a moving car and you keep it flat. This would simulate flaps up and trim flight. As soon as you tilt your hand up, your hand then moves up. More lift, simulating flaps down. When flying real aircraft I always have to nose down a bit and re-trim the aircraft when flaps are added. ;)Kev

I agree with Kev, on the ballooning part, and some aircraft are worse than others as to the amount of ballooning when flaps are deployed. It is partially dependant on the speed you are going when intially dropping the flaps. If you are at the upper range of the flap speed, you will notice alot more ballooning when dropping the flaps. I knew when I was ready to lower flaps on a 152-172, that as the flaps were coming down, I would be pushing the control wheel in and dialing in nose down trim all at the same time, to maintain my pitch attitude until the airspeed slowed down. I don't have recent experience in a 182 to remember who much it ballooned. I do notice that once you get this aircraft slowed down to a short final approach speed of 65-70 knots, you can push the nose down quite a bit, get a pretty steep approach angle, and get a good rate of sink, without picking up much if any airpeed. That 30 degrees of flaps is producing alot of drag at that point, and it feels like the flaps are acting like speed brakes. I am assuming that the flap drag scaler must be correct and any additional drag , would in my opinion, be unrealistic.

I just performed three consecutive attempts at landing at Heatrow (don't remember which rwy but they are all long...). I had full flaps, maintained 70 knots and 100 feet and had cut the throttle. I flew the entire length of the rwy without losing one inch in altitude and only about 3-4 knots in speed. I repeated it two more times with the same result, no throttle but still no descent and only slightly slowering. I'm no real pilot and really don't know what can be expected, but I've never experienced this behaviour before in any other add-on (and I have lots of them...). Reminds me of what could happen in Fly!II at certain airports! :)I have to add though that it looks stunning, has a wonderful VC that works perfectly with TrackIR and that landing with one notch of flaps is no problem.

What is the problem with induced drag?

The tilting occurs when you apply brakes and there is still forward momentum compressing the nosewheel oleo strut. It's supposed to be modeled that way.

The plane doesn't slow down like it should when flaps and landing gear are deployed. With full flaps you should have to apply 75%-80% throttle to maintain a good landing approach. Another way to look at it is if you point the nose down with landing gear and full flaps and cut the throttle, you'll notice the plane wants to hang in the air like a kite... You'll get a slight decent profile but it's very unrealistic for a Cessna 182RG.Drag is the forces that's put on the plane to counteract thrust. Flaps and landing gear produce considerable drag on an airplane....

After initial enthusiasm about the 182 and after some patternwork in the sim, I must say that I'm a bit disappointed as well.I only have 2, maybe 3 hours in a real 182RG, and most of those approaches were IMC with 10 degree flaps (so no real patternwork) and we didn't float anywhere near as far as this one does. I love this model, I do hope as this is my first Carenado purchase that they hang out here and will eventually fix it.Besides the sound, which I believe was mentioned here before, I have no problems with this stunningly looking bird. Hope it'll get fixed though.Cheers,Pete http://members.aol.com/pzsoulman/myhomepage/logo.gifAMD64-3400,1GB/2700DDRAM,WinXP(SP2),DirectX9.0c,Geforce6800(128MB)(Det.71.89), CH Yoke/Pedals

Well I played with this aircraft for a few hours tonight doing touch and goes, and I agree , there is definetly something wrong with the flight model. The first thing I did was to change the flaps drag scaler from 0.9 to 1.5. This got the aircraft to slow down at least, requiring a healthy dose of down elevator to maintain 65-70 knots, but now the aircraft looks like the Space Shuttle on a approach. Great way to land on your nose wheel and cave in the firewall in real life... If you don't point the nose down, the plane seems to want to float forever as the airspeed bleeds off until you are just about at a stall, and still pointed nose down. If I change the flap drag scaler back to default, I can sail down the length of a 4,000 runway, hoping I can touch down and stop before I run out of pavement. Then I tried something else, I trimmed the aircraft for 65 knots, 30 degrees of flaps , gear down and engine at just about idle, and I flew the entire legth of a 5000 foot runway at 200 feet AGL. Near the end, I could actually climb by increasing the angle of attack, with the engine still at idle. This is not the way a 182 handles... I hope they fix it.

One more thing I just tried, full flaps ( 30 degrees) I took of and was able to climb at 1700 FPM according to the VS indicator, and I hadn't even retracted the flaps or landing gear. Then I put out 30 degrees of flaps, engine at just above idle, trimmed for 65 knots and the plane flew at level flight for miles, with the nose at about 10 degrees down from level. I wonder who Beta tested this thing?

>One more thing I just tried, full flaps ( 30 degrees) I took>of and was able to climb at 1700 FPM according to the VS>indicator, and I hadn't even retracted the flaps or landing>gear. >>Then I put out 30 degrees of flaps, engine at just above idle,>trimmed for 65 knots and the plane flew at level flight for>miles, with the nose at about 10 degrees down from level. >>> I wonder who Beta tested this thing? First I read the original first sentence, and couldn't get near 1700fpm, not even half of that, and wondered if you just popped it off the ground & saw 1700 for a second or two. edit: It's a fact, that some real airplanes will litterly "pop" off the ground with full flaps (even 40 degrees), but suffer highly in acceleration. While some POH's use 10 & 25 degrees for short field performance takeoffs over an obstacle, there are actually some that use a full 40.Then I come back to reply, and see the second sentence, which means it's off to testing again. For me to fly 65 kias in trimmed level flight, 30 degrees flaps, I was looking at 2200 to near redline depending on my prop control.One down the line throughout this thread, I'm seeing some replies, that's possibly justified, as well as replies that have no validity at all. To me, landing this 182 is purely a non-event.L.Adamson

I don't have the 182RG but reading the thread, I just wanted to suggest adjusting the scalars to get flap operations where they need to be. Remember, there's three scalars that can be applied to the aircraft.cfg in the flaps section, but not all appear in designers' FDE's. Those three are:lift_scalar=x.x drag_scalar=x.xpitch_scalar=x.xIn addition, the throttle profile in the .air file may be applying too much thrust at idle speed. I've seen that in rare instances when I've run into aircraft that would seem to float no matter what I tried. I would try to adjust the scalars first, but if all else fails, it may be an .air file issue. One way to determine this--kill the engine during approach and see how much that influences the final and the issues mentioned here. A comment was made regarding how this was tested (i.e. beta). With any project, the vendor has the last word--not those who do the beta. Some minor adjustment could have been made to the FDE after beta which blew things up. -John

>The plane doesn't slow down like it should when flaps and>landing gear are deployed. With full flaps you should have to>apply 75%-80% throttle to maintain a good landing approach. I almost thought "mine" was slowing down "too much", but then I remembered it had a C/S prop, which is like a big air brake at full foward, fine pitch. And why would you be using 75-80% throttle with full flaps? Normally, you'd only go full flaps to steepen the approach, at near idle. If you're 75-80% throttle, then you're already "dragging" it in, and certainly would not want to be full flaps. >>Another way to look at it is if you point the nose down with>landing gear and full flaps and cut the throttle, you'll>notice the plane wants to hang in the air like a kite... >You'll get a slight decent profile but it's very unrealistic>for a Cessna 182RG.Again, mine does not. It comes down, and does not have a tendency to float.>>Drag is the forces that's put on the plane to counteract>thrust. Flaps and landing gear produce considerable drag on>an airplane....>And the flaps are also producing lift. Especially a Cessna's fowler type, which actually increases wing area as they roll back & down on their tracks.L.Adamson