Arwen, on 09 February 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:For me, a flightsim has to be realistic to be immersive. And Flight is realistic . . . in some ways it is more realistic than FSX . . . in some ways it is less realistic (at this point).

In a simming context realism should mean above all that if you don't know how to fly in the RW you should have a hard tim flying in the sim.You only will get a sense of accomplishment and a thrill from flying if your adrenalin kicks in and that's just not going to happen from flying with a mouse, a keyboard or a Kinnect console taped to your forehead that makes it easy. Fact is there's no thrill in anything if it's dumb easy. The whole point is mastering a skill.For realism in flight you need a stick and rudder at a minimum.Cheers,- jahman.

You know, I'm really getting sick of all the clowns here who haven't even tried Flight yet constantly belittling it, just to entertain all the other Flight/MS haters on this forum.This happens to be the FLIGHT forum, NOT the MS bash forum. I didn't like the X-Plane 10 demo, yet I at least gave it a chance. But you don't see me over in the X-Plane forum, making fun of X-Plane. This is not what these forums are for.If you have already made up your mind that you don't like Flight, then why are you even spending time in this forum?FYI: I fly in Flight with my Saitex X52 Flight Control System and my Thrustmaster pedals.And I have experienced at least as much sense of accomplishment in using Flight as I ever did using FSX. Try to do a dense fog ILS approach and landing in crosswinds in Flight and see if you think that it isn't realistic enough for you. I've got news for you. You guys are use to being able to pick out a landing strip in FXS from 10 miles out (because it is bright green) are going to have trouble even finding the small landing strips in Flight. You're going to have to cheat go back to Flight's map screen just to find those little strips. And some of you are likely going to scream that Flight is sooo buggy, that the default Icon will not start (and then find out that this was because you forgot to add any fuel).I predict that most of you guys (if you actually use a joystick, and disable all the flying assists) will crash more trying to land an aircraft in flight in the first week than you have in FSX in the past year.EDITED: You guys make sick! I need some air. I'm going skiing. Don't wait up,

Edited February 9, 201214 yr by Arwen

You know, I'm really getting sick of all the clowns here who haven't even tried Flight yet constantly belittling it, just to entertain all the other Flight/MS haters on this forum.

Fact is you don't know if I've beta-tested Flight.But I agree with you, shooting an ILS approach with weather on the deck in a P-51 with no cockpit instruments has got to be challenging.Cheers,- jahman.

Those who are looking for full world including serious simulator, stay with FSX, FS9 or buy X plane 10 which I think is next serious sim.If you are interested in just flying smaller General Aviation and do not care too much about having planes with their systems exactly modeled, and are ready to fly in those areas Microsoft happens to offer, then Flight may be good for you. So simple. Anyway I think that its very obvious now that Flight wont be whole world including simulator that is intended for those that like to do things just like in real life.

I didn't miss your point. But apparently you must have missed one of my earlier posts today in this thread, where I compared FSX (with addons), the X-Plane 10 demo, and my beta version of Flight.I'm not sure what you're expecting from a FREE simulator . . . expecting to be able to have your preferred scenery areas available immediately is obviously not going to happen. If you are not interested in Flight, why are you even posting in the Flight forum?

You may not have missed my point but you didn't address it. You dismissed it because there are no airliners in Flight. If the other post was relevant then you should have referred me to it. You can't expect people to read every post in a long thread, but I will search for it to understand your view of the three platforms.I don't expect anything from a free simulator, but this one won't be free unless you are prepared to accept the limitation of one island and two flyable aircraft. It's clearly Microsoft's intention to have people keep paying for additional content as existing content begins to get boring. Surely with a launch less than three weeks away Microsoft should be trailing the features which will keep people buying. As it is there's no sign of anything beyond Hawaii and single engine prop aircraft.A forum is for an exchange of views, both positive and negative, it's not up to you to say who can and who cannot post in it. Until the most recent preview I was mildly interested in Flight but wary of how it might turn out.

I predict that most of you guys (if you actually use a joystick, and disable all the flying assists) will crash more trying to land an aircraft in flight in the first week than you have in FSX in the past year.EDITED: You guys make sick! I need some air. I'm going skiing. Don't wait up,

Then there's something wrong with Flight's realism if it's that difficult to fly. In my experience flying on a PC sim is more difficult than flying for real because you are missing so many cues. Making flying difficult because non-pilots expect it to be so isn't realism.As for the edit, sound's like you are taking this far too personally. Can you not tolerate people who disagree with you?

EDITED: You guys make sick! I need some air. I'm going skiing. Don't wait up,

Hello ArwenThats exactly what my wife does when she cannot win her arguments, flounces out of the room.This is getting to be a habit with you.

You know, I'm really getting sick of all the clowns here who haven't even tried Flight yet constantly belittling it, just to entertain all the other Flight/MS haters on this forum.This happens to be the FLIGHT forum, NOT the MS bash forum. I didn't like the X-Plane 10 demo, yet I at least gave it a chance. But you don't see me over in the X-Plane forum, making fun of X-Plane. This is not what these forums are for.If you have already made up your mind that you don't like Flight, then why are you even spending time in this forum?FYI: I fly in Flight with my Saitex X52 Flight Control System and my Thrustmaster pedals.And I have experienced at least as much sense of accomplishment in using Flight as I ever did using FSX. Try to do a dense fog ILS approach and landing in crosswinds in Flight and see if you think that it isn't realistic enough for you. I've got news for you. You guys are use to being able to pick out a landing strip in FXS from 10 miles out (because it is bright green) are going to have trouble even finding the small landing strips in Flight. You're going to have to cheat go back to Flight's map screen just to find those little strips. And some of you are likely going to scream that Flight is sooo buggy, that the default Icon will not start (and then find out that this was because you forgot to add any fuel).I predict that most of you guys (if you actually use a joystick, and disable all the flying assists) will crash more trying to land an aircraft in flight in the first week than you have in FSX in the past year.EDITED: You guys make sick! I need some air. I'm going skiing. Don't wait up,

Arwin:I am a beta tester and sorry, you are 100% wrong in that the flight model for the A5 is absolutely no better than a default model in FSX. The A5 flight model is no more complex than the Trike in FSX, so I'm not understanding why you feel that anyone will have any trouble with it? It is made to fly with a mouse AND it is purposely chosen by Microsoft due to its benign flight characteristics (read: extremely easy to fly). It is even easier to fly than the Cessna 172 because you don't even have to worry about things like: flaps or mixture or any of those other annoying things that even student pilots learn in the first 45 minutes of flying in the real world.You do realize that this is an enthusiasts' forum and 99% of the people here jump at a chance to hand fly a ILS down to minimums in everything from a C172 to the PMDG 747 but you think that the people here are going to have trouble flying the A5 in Hawaiian fog? You believe that people are not going to be able to start the A5 because they'll forget to put in gas??? Come on Arwen you are such a smart person but these statements are really...strange? How is it you say you use FSX but find Flight "challenging"?I knew you like Flight and there is NOTHING WRONG with that. Flight is not FSXI. But why not let FLIGHT stand on its own merits or lack of them. You're coming across as someone who wants to believe in something so desperately that you are suspending rational thought in hopes of wishing it into existence.

But at some point I guess I might don a bird suit and try Flight!

you better wait for Kinect, you can then even take of by moving your arms up and down. I just have no idea how to steer unless can can also buy attachable tail feathers as a birds pack

You know, I'm really getting sick of all the clowns here who haven't even tried Flight yet constantly belittling it, just to entertain all the other Flight/MS haters on this forum.This happens to be the FLIGHT forum, NOT the MS bash forum. I didn't like the X-Plane 10 demo, yet I at least gave it a chance. But you don't see me over in the X-Plane forum, making fun of X-Plane. This is not what these forums are for.If you have already made up your mind that you don't like Flight, then why are you even spending time in this forum?FYI: I fly in Flight with my Saitex X52 Flight Control System and my Thrustmaster pedals.And I have experienced at least as much sense of accomplishment in using Flight as I ever did using FSX. Try to do a dense fog ILS approach and landing in crosswinds in Flight and see if you think that it isn't realistic enough for you. I've got news for you. You guys are use to being able to pick out a landing strip in FXS from 10 miles out (because it is bright green) are going to have trouble even finding the small landing strips in Flight. You're going to have to cheat go back to Flight's map screen just to find those little strips. And some of you are likely going to scream that Flight is sooo buggy, that the default Icon will not start (and then find out that this was because you forgot to add any fuel).I predict that most of you guys (if you actually use a joystick, and disable all the flying assists) will crash more trying to land an aircraft in flight in the first week than you have in FSX in the past year.EDITED: You guys make sick! I need some air. I'm going skiing. Don't wait up,

whats on the red text its the same thing we had in FSX .But for some people that was not good and even after they were able to do that and explore the beta and see that FSX was FAR from Flight in a bad way . for some reason they cant get thier heads out of somewhere and come here to talk the wrong way about flight . And i ask what has change ??? it is only hawaii for now , so yes the rest comes at a price .Now back in FSX we paid for addon scenery and airports that were already included with the original FSX version , yeah flight around with detail has always come at a price not free or not 12$ . Once again what has change??? Now about the blue text . I remenber back when i first went for a discovery flight i went back to my house and look at FS98 in a diferent way . Today with Flight you cant do what lots of us were able to do in FSX that was not realistic at all , look down and there was the field easy to spot from miles away ,wait till the 29 and try the same . I hate to see some guys here that know what i just said its true and even that they know here they are throwing more wood on the old fire just to be cool with the rest . I know some of us cant talk till the 29 but there are ways to say things without getting in trouble.

Edited February 9, 201214 yr by rtodepart

The A5 flight model is no more complex than the Trike in FSX, so I'm not understanding why you feel that anyone will have any trouble with it? It is made to fly with a mouse AND it is purposely chosen by Microsoft due to its benign flight characteristics (read: extremely easy to fly). It is even easier to fly than the Cessna 172 because you don't even have to worry about things like: flaps or mixture or any of those other annoying things that even student pilots learn in the first 45 minutes of flying in the real world.

That is the design of the real A5, an easy airplane to fly. MS is modeling a real airplane, if they made it hard to fly, then it would unrealistic. Every plane in FSX can also be flown with a mouse without the need for trimming. So the A5 is not made to fly with the mouse, instead they made the mouse to be available as a control.

Edited February 9, 201214 yr by sibtiger

If you are not interested in Flight, why are you even posting in the Flight forum?

I would think this is a (hosted) forum ABOUT the product of MS Flight..... not a Flight Fan Forum per sé ? ;-)

Both FSX and Flight can use the mouse as the controller and the mousewheel for throttles but in FSX it is terrible.In Flight it feels like a well calibrated joystick.................ie. Usable.

In Flight it feels like a well calibrated joystick.................ie. Usable.

Hello FredThats great news, I cannot wait to scrap my cockpitWho needs all those controls when I can fly the Icon with my mouse. I bet its even better in chase view.

I wouldn't fly the Icon if you paid me. It's the most horrible little aircraft I have ever seen.The RV-6, now that's a different story.Fred.

".....Microsoft will periodically offer new territories, planes and activities. The company may also extend the franchise to other devices beyond the PC. Executive Producer Joshua Howard hopes the game will draw more than 20 million players eventually....."*Cough* ..... oh, and he calls it a 'franchise' :( :( :(