2 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Exactly. To each their own I guess. As for myself I prefer...

After a whole lot of experimentation, queries to folks here about these issues, I decided yesterday to rid myself completely of the subtle but very visible glass cockpit aberration, outside "strobing" under certain types of lighting conditions (dawn/dusk especially) on near-the-plane tarmac textures, and perhaps most important to me the fact that interacting with the MSFS main display after interacting w/ my 2nd display which I use for many things and constantly go back and forth with the mouse during flight we got rid of the often very prominent judder that happens whenever I move the mouse back to the main display.  And finally, I was initially stoked by being able to now set Render Scale to 130% and get away with it....I thought.....   What I discovered was after a while of flying w/ FG enabled and RS at 130 I started to get just wretched hangs when panning.  I thought maybe this was server-side related but it wasn't for sure.  Turn RS back to 100, panning becomes normal again.  Hmmm, weird, but OK it was what it was.  This could well be related to my CPU not feeding what it needs to at that RS, but not sure at all.

This flight was done with FG turned off, out of FSDT's KORD to KPHL   I couldn't help but notice but CPU main thread and GPU % utilization went down with FG off, no wonders there.  But then I thought can I get away with higher RS now w/ FG off?  First tried RS 130%, then 150% and finally 200%:  absolutely no problems running at 200% RS.   I had the smoothest, 1000% visual artifact-free flight.   As you know by now Edge Sync supplies the smooth, and it is, even at modest frame rates.  I was even able to set the frame lock at 40FPS from my default 35, absolutely ZERO stutters from KORD gate to KPHL and unlocked it barely could do 43fps or so.

So yes, for me FG has been a colossal fail.  Not the 4090, just FG.  I initially thought the locked rate at 60, and not say 80+, was the reason for the strobing and glass cockpit issues, and that turned out not to be the case.   You've seen various responses here re these issues and since I only have testimony and my own experience to evaluate what's happening, I really have no idea if it's that others are so enamored w/ high frame rates they dismiss these aberrations, or they don't have them.  If I scrutinize all responses I conclude these are real aberrations that bother some more than others, but I think they probably exist for everyone.   What I don't know is if a much stronger CPU fixes most of this, and again, I sense not.  I've read several posts from people with stronger CPUs and the sense I get is, for them, it's worth the issues associated w/ FG, that would be RTX NV based FG, not the mod.

Anyway, back to where I was with 3080Ti, but with RS I have set now at 150, though haven't seen a reason to not go all the way to 200%--that may get hammered in certain types of clouds, but I haven't seen it yet.  Just took off out of KSFO at FPS locked at 38, and excellent results persist.   4090 def is helping me put the frame lock above 34 or so, my prior default.

I run FG with 130 RS and haven't noticed any hangs or other problems, but I only use one display.

Edited March 4, 20242 yr by Ixoye

2 hours ago, Noel said:

What I discovered was after a while of flying w/ FG enabled and RS at 130 I started to get just wretched hangs when panning.  I thought maybe this was server-side related but it wasn't for sure.  Turn RS back to 100, panning becomes normal again.  Hmmm, weird, but OK it was what it was.  This could well be related to my CPU not feeding what it needs to at that RS, but not sure at all.

Did you happen to check main thread frame time in dev mode by any chance?

2 hours ago, Noel said:

I couldn't help but notice but CPU main thread and GPU % utilization went down with FG off

OK, looks like you checked it. 

2 hours ago, Noel said:

First tried RS 130%, then 150% and finally 200%

200%, that's very high. I'm surprised you were able to pull that off. That'll be 6880x2880 as your native is 3440x1440.

I'm pushing the limits of my hardware at 5461x2880. Currently at iniBuilds KJFK gate D22 in the Fenix V2 w/ FSHud+FSLTL and w/ FG on I'm getting 55fps. 

This scenario is really hammering the main thread, so even though FG-FPS is decent, I do experience those FG-related artifacts that you describe as flickering. Or do you describe them as strobing also?

2 hours ago, Noel said:

You've seen various responses here re these issues and since I only have testimony and my own experience to evaluate what's happening, I really have no idea if it's that others are so enamored w/ high frame rates they dismiss these aberrations, or they don't have them.

See my above comment. I do see them. But without FG in the particular scenario (KJFK), FPS would be below 30. So in the trade-off between artifacts and FPS, in this situation I choose the latter. 

2 hours ago, Noel said:

What I don't know is if a much stronger CPU fixes most of this, and again, I sense not.

I would think it would, to some extent. Especially in a similar scenario to what I'm describing. What's that super-deluxe AMD CPU everyone's praising? 7800x3D or something. I'm not at all familiar with team red as you might gather. 

Oh, and btw @Noel, since I prioritized answering your comment in detail vs completing the pre-flight flows, I'm now at least 10 mins behind schedule lol. Those poor passenger are waiting, I guess I should make an announcement and apologize before I call for pushback 😛 

Edited March 4, 20242 yr by Cpt_Piett

39 minutes ago, Ixoye said:

I run FG with 130 RS and haven't noticed any hangs or other problems, but I only use one display.

Thanks, I have to assume it's the much stronger CPU preventing this major show-stopper from happening.  So, we'll revisit FG if n when we ever upgrade the CPU.  At this point, there really is hardly any point in planning for that.  Clearly the 4090 actually is easier on my 9900K than 3080Ti was, allowing me to get away with higher base frame rates now and I note 40fps really obviates frame rate related problems.

Cheers

 

7 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Did you happen to check main thread frame time in dev mode by any chance?

No I didn't***, but I verified this happens for me despite changing GPU drivers and a few other changes to prove it was the higher RS that brought this about.

I find a rock solid 38 fps with zero artifacts vastly superior to 80fps with the garbage associated with FG.  Nice to be back to perfection.  And I know, at least here, faster rates solve essentially none of these artifacts. 

***I only use RTSS OSD to display Core07, which is the main here.

Edited March 4, 20242 yr by Noel

9 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

200%, that's very high. I'm surprised you were able to pull that off.

I'm wondering if FG eats a lot more GPU than we might have supposed and that is made worse the higher the RS.   At cruise to KPHL, close to descent, GPU use still only around 52%, and no problems w/ VRAM either. 

Right now I'm parked at FT KLAS.  Here is the loading with RS at 200% and you know that area is chuck full of objects.  Of note, using Dynamic LOD and way down at ground to 

• VRAM 16.7Gb
• GPU load:  73%
• CPU main:  67%
• Frame rate lock:  38

Just razor sharp looking out towards the strip at the buses and vehicles well far away!

Cheers!

 

40 minutes ago, Noel said:

Right now I'm parked at FT KLAS.  Here is the loading with RS at 200% and you know that area is chuck full of objects.  Of note, using Dynamic LOD and way down at ground to 

• VRAM 16.7Gb
• GPU load:  73%
• CPU main:  67%
• Frame rate lock:  38

Just razor sharp looking out towards the strip at the buses and vehicles well far away!

Up here at FL340 en route to KDTW, my stats are as follows: 

• VRAM sim/total 19/21.8GB
• GPU load avg: 71%
• CPU load avg: 32%
• Frame rate lock: 60
• RAM sim/total 7.4/23.6GB

I'm using AutoFPS which is currently running TLOD 600, OLOD 20 and clouds ultra. 

Just did a quick CapFrameX though and I don't see what I like. It's tweaking-time (again!). 

43 minutes ago, Noel said:

Right now I'm parked at FT KLAS.  Here is the loading with RS at 200% and you know that area is chuck full of objects. 

 

Do you really see any difference between RS at 130 and 200? I can't really say I see much of difference higher than 125.

40 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Just did a quick CapFrameX though and I don't see what I like. It's tweaking-time (again!). 

I did another one and all is well (phew!). It's possible that having Chrome open with 30+ tabs had a negative impact...

I also noticed that there is MUCH more micro-stutters when FPS is NOT locked w/ RTSS in edge sync!

Completely off-topic, but is the temp in Detroit really 21°C?!

Quote

KDTW METAR: Wind 200° 13kt. Visibility 10sm. Clouds scattered 3000ft, broken 25000ft. Temperature 21°C, dew point 13°C. Altimeter 30.03inHg.

Edited March 4, 20242 yr by Cpt_Piett

3 hours ago, Noel said:

This flight was done with FG turned off, out of FSDT's KORD to KPHL   I couldn't help but notice but CPU main thread and GPU % utilization went down with FG off, no wonders there.  But then I thought can I get away with higher RS now w/ FG off?

So, if I understood you correctly, you went back to DX11 with FG off and TAA, but set RS to 150%, right?

Also, how do you manage the camera transitions (for example, switching from CPT view to overhead and back)? This is the only reason I need so high FPS and why I use FG. Anything less and it makes me dizzy. I have no issues with actual flying and low (30-34) FPS.

So I'm getting excellent performance up at cruise altitude with almost no stuttering, as should be expected. Getting closer to a large airport (in this case iniBuilds KDTW Detroit), and things start to look a bit different. 

Cruise FL340:

Approach ILS 27R:

Although there's not much stuttering, the frame time variance has started to increase compared to the flawless situation above. 

Taxi to gate: 

Here it becomes apparent that the main thread cannot keep up, and frame time variance is even greater. Granted, Detroit Metro was absolutely packed with AI aircraft (FSHud+FSLTL). 

Having posted yet more regarding performance, I realize I have hijacked this thread which really is about TAA vs DLSS and NCP settings. Sorry - hope someone finds it useful. 

Edited March 4, 20242 yr by Cpt_Piett

3 hours ago, Ixoye said:

Do you really see any difference between RS at 130 and 200? I can't really say I see much of difference higher than 125.

It's too early to tell.  I set it at 150 for the recent flight and just temporarily tried 200 in mid flight, then again at a gate at FSDT KLAS.  I can tell you that tiny vehicles, cars, busses etc were just razor sharp--but I didn't dial back to 130 to compare.

2 hours ago, Luis Hernandez said:

So, if I understood you correctly, you went back to DX11 with FG off and TAA, but set RS to 150%, right?

Also, how do you manage the camera transitions (for example, switching from CPT view to overhead and back)? This is the only reason I need so high FPS and why I use FG. Anything less and it makes me dizzy. I have no issues with actual flying and low (30-34) FPS.

Never said anything about DX11 as I've used DX12 for the past year and left it there, but yes on the other points.   I guarantee you would would have exactly zero issues w/ panning if you saw what I see on this display, as setup.  By the time you get to a frame rate of 38 or more there really is not problem whatsoever w/ panning.  As I said in another thread re the FG mod, the fluidness at the ends of panning events when FG is on is attractive for sure.  But in some ways it's actually less realistic.  Here's what I mean and you can try it yourself:  turn your head 70 degrees laterally at the same pace you might pan in the cockpit.   What do you see?  You DON'T see that soft, almost overly, unnaturally fluid change from the pan to the end of the pan in either direction.  You see an abrupt stop and start, and that is exactly what a frame rate of 36 or 38 or 40 provides.  Oh it's kind of seductive, that softness, but really, it's isn't natural at all, meaning not like what you see when you turn your head quickly in the real world.

Edited March 4, 20242 yr by Noel

6 hours ago, Noel said:

So yes, for me FG has been a colossal fail.  Not the 4090, just FG

That is such a shame Noel, It has to be CPU related. For me FG is absolutely stellar, especially this last week since I have been locking fps@80 with Front Edge Sync. It is buttery smooth and I can even go down to 70fps if need be.

5 hours ago, Noel said:

Thanks, I have to assume it's the much stronger CPU preventing this major show-stopper from happening.  

I think your assumption is correct. 

I totally understand the allure of wanting more gpu -- I even bought a 3080ti just to run 4K -- and I wish I hadn't.   I built a well-balanced system in 2017 consisting of an 8700K and a 1080ti.  That rig was stellar.   But eventually, after about 6 years, it was showing its age.  Ill-advisedly I decided the problem was that I was running 4K and the 1080ti could /do/ 4K but only barely.  So I shelled out $$$$ for a 3080ti and dropped it in with the 8700K. 

The result?  I could then run 4K a lot better, but, the overall problem (old cpu) was still holding me back.  Massively cpu-bound situation.  And the 3080ti is a hot-running dude, too.  I had to rig up another case fan and move some things around.  Ugh the hassle.

You are not in that situation exactly.  Unlike me, you made a good decision going with the 4090, which is much better hardware than the nvidia 3-series was.  But your problem now is that your 9900K which was top-notch in its day, has given great service but is now seeing the other side of the hill, at least as far as heavy-fs-lifting goes, and you are having unintended side-effects (cpu can't push enough to handle FG).

If all you want to do is run a smooth 40 and no FG, then fine, but to me that defeats the whole purpose of getting the 4090.   That's exactly why I decided to get a 7800X3D + 4090.  I've had it installed for 11 months now and I've had the greatest 11 months of flight simulation I've ever had going back to 1985 and SubLogic FS2.   Don't take that the wrong way Noel -- I think you have set yourself up for a nice cpu upgrade and you won't have to worry about gpu.  The gpu was most of the expense, surely.