OK

8 hours ago, Bob Scott said:

Back to the topic please.  If you want to run on about War Thunder et al, start a new thread in Hangar Chat, this forum isn't the place.

 

6 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Methinks you haven't actually tried War Thunder, then...

 

I have,

However you are both completely missing the point, which has nothing much to do with war thunder.

My point the future popularity of flight sim in VR

of which war thunder is by far the most popular VR flight sim

The point that videos like this

Attract 1 million views.

You don't get that kind of outcome from drawing conclusions based on ad populum arguments and following what microsoft does, especially ad populum arguments that completely ignore the freight train simulation accross the board is on right now. While you are all arguing if flight sim on XBOX or mobile "is serious", all current flight sims and anything for XBOX becomes obsolete this year.

No, I get it. E.g., I fly in VR, too. Have been for years.

It's fantastic - when I'm in a high fidelity flight simulator flying a high fidelity addon.

When I'm in War Thunder, I couldn't care less about VR because I couldn't care less about the game.

11 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

No, I get it. E.g., I fly in VR, too. Have been for years.

It's fantastic - when I'm in a high fidelity flight simulator flying a high fidelity addon.

When I'm in War Thunder, I couldn't care less about VR because I couldn't care less about the game.

Right, but you aren't discouraged by the high barriers needed access something like X-Plane, _most_ people are.

My point with aces of thunder is it is the first to finally do both.

~$20,000 of PC flight simulator (high end PC, varjoXR4, RTX4090, realistic controls)

in a probably $70 console package (the PS5 and PSVR2 can be discounted to zero, since millions of people will already own or want them anyway, one of my local telcos was recently basically giving them away as bundles with new phone contracts...)

wrapped in the "fun and interesting" needed to keep people engaged

with marketing direct to ~70 million people who have already expressed an interest.

This is huge shift for our niche genre: What MSFS could have been if they believed in VR, weren't constrained to missions no more violent than flying over your house and engaged a studio with a highly successful related title under their belt - all the things that make the occulus quest and PS5 both outsell XBOX.

 

Edited February 17, 20242 yr by mSparks

14 hours ago, mSparks said:

Right, but you aren't discouraged by the high barriers needed access something like X-Plane, _most_ people are.

My point with aces of thunder is it is the first to finally do both.

~$20,000 of PC flight simulator (high end PC, varjoXR4, RTX4090, realistic controls)

in a probably $70 console package (the PS5 and PSVR2 can be discounted to zero, since millions of people will already own or want them anyway, one of my local telcos was recently basically giving them away as bundles with new phone contracts...)

wrapped in the "fun and interesting" needed to keep people engaged

with marketing direct to ~70 million people who have already expressed an interest.

This is huge shift for our niche genre: What MSFS could have been if they believed in VR, weren't constrained to missions no more violent than flying over your house and engaged a studio with a highly successful related title under their belt - all the things that make the occulus quest and PS5 both outsell XBOX.

 

For anyone who wants a flight game, it'll be fantastic.

For anyone who wants a flight simulator, it'll (still) suck.

VR performance in flight sims is relatively poor across the board. And generally speaking, the more realistic the flight sim, the poorer the performance.

And again, laying this off as though it's MS-only shortsightedness is ridiculous. The very same things can be said about X-Plane, Prepar3D and DCS World.

 

 

52 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

And again, laying this off as though it's MS-only

definitely not ms only, hence the topic title. 

52 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

it'll (still) suck.

perhaps you can point me in the side by side what you think will suck?

v

 

 

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

definitely not ms only, hence the topic title. 

perhaps you can point me in the side by side what you think will suck?

v

 

 

As I've repeatedly said, the flight & systems modeling. 

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

As I've repeatedly said, the flight & systems modeling. 

they are going realistic for aces of thunder, most likely the first title based on: 

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/antoinette-project-tools-to-create-the-next-generation-of-flight-simulators

at the very least

https://github.com/JSBSim-Team/jsbsim

has that more than covered for wwii fighter planes.

Edited February 17, 20242 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

they are going realistic for aces of thunder, most likely the first title based on: 

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/antoinette-project-tools-to-create-the-next-generation-of-flight-simulators

at the very least

https://github.com/JSBSim-Team/jsbsim

has that more than covered for wwii fighter planes.

All I've seen so far is that it'll be developed from War Thunder, which they (falsely) claim is already realistic. Which means reusing as much of the same code as possible.

Why would they build another flight sim from scratch when they've had such wild success with War Thunder?

Unless they've made statements otherwise, you're reading waaaaaay too much into a few press releases and videos. Best to prepare for a re-launch of War Thunder level fidelity.

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

All I've seen so far is that it'll be developed from War Thunder

"From the WT team", war thunder "combat" specs are "realistic" in the sense their power and performance match the real vehicles, input and general control is intentionally simplifed to make it joypad friendly.

The whole concept of aces of thunder is to simulate the "here's a plane, 30 minutes of tutorial, now go shoot down the bad guys" that was WWII fighter planes (their average life expectancy was like ~2 weeks...), all the controls are now as the actual cockpit using your hands - hence the VR exclusive, you can absolutely see this in the video, 7 seconds in with a VR glove stroking the plane.

they say:

Quote

Take control! A control stick and throttle are the key controls to any aircraft, be it a fighter or an attack aircraft. In Aces of Thunder, you can control your aircraft by using the sticks on the PSVR2 controller and also take control of the throttle and rudder with literally your own hands! To do this, just reach out with your virtual hands, grab them, and then move the controller in the same way as you would move a control stick while sitting in the cockpit of a real aircraft.

You can also use the touch of your hands to control the flaps and landing gear — plus, even open the cockpit canopy if it gets too hot in battle!

Use the most immersive and intuitive controls to navigate in the most realistic air battles in Aces of Thunder when it releases for PlayStation VR2!

and also

Quote

Virtual reality pilots!

We are excited to introduce the lineup of aircraft that will be available in Aces of Thunder immediately upon release. Thanks to the PlayStation VR2 helmet you will be able to sit in the detailed simulated cockpit of your favorite WWII aircraft and take to the skies over the battlefields of Eastern, Western and Pacific fronts!

Today we will tell you about the US aviation lineup, one of the five nations whose aircraft will be available right at the start of the game. There are 3 fighters as well as the SB2C Helldiver dive bomber which was used in many battles against Japan. But the P-63 Kingcobra wasn’t used at home: it was mainly supplied to the USSR under Lend-Lease for use at the Pacific front.

The P-47 Thunderbolt, nicknamed the "The Jug" - a real all-rounder, capable of withstanding many hits in dogfights and carrying significant weight for bombing ground targets was used in the European theater of operations by both the USA and the USSR and by Free France and even Brazil. Finally the P-51 Mustang that was used to escort bombers during raids on both Germany and Japan was the key to Allied air superiority at the end of WWII.

This is just a small part of the vehicles that awaits you in Aces of Thunder. Stay tuned for further publications. Next we will tell you about the aircraft that the most productive aces of WWII flew on!

We’re continuing to introduce aircraft to the upcoming realistic military flight simulator, Aces of Thunder, which is being developed for the PlayStation VR2. Today, we’ll talk about the aircraft flown by pilots from the Axis countries, which includes those that went down in history as record holders for the number of air duels won.

The German Air Force will receive two modifications of the famous Bf 109, which was an aircraft that remained relevant until the very end of the war: the F-4 and G-2. These modifications will compete with the even more capable Fw 190, which was a threat to Allies both on the Western and Eastern fronts. And lastly, the heavier Bf 110 which was used in the invasion of Poland, France and Norway, and by the middle of the war, was repurposed as a night fighter in the defense of Reich territory.

These are the four Luftwaffe aircraft that will come to your hangar in Aces of Thunder! Next time, we’ll talk more about their opponents from the Eastern front — stay tuned!

Now, that's not going to be filling in for your favourite C172, or complex biz jet or tubeliner.

However it is promising to be the most "realistic" of flight simulations short of spending $20,000 on PC hardware.... how you interact with the cockpit, how they perform, fly, how real the graphics look is coming up unrivelled (thanks to foveated rendering).

And a whole lot of fun to boot.

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Why would they build another flight sim from scratch when they've had such wild success with War Thunder?

but its not "a whole other sim", that would fail, its the flight & models of a small number of aircraft honed as best as humanly possible, dropped into what currently costs us 10s of thousands of $'s, for $70.

Only ones of their 70mil users that isn't going to appeal so much to is the ones that already spent 10s of thousands of $'s on PC kit (aka, it's going to appeal to all of them)

which, that ground work out the way, comes back to my original point, how does Laminar/us get some of that gigantic pie.

Edited February 18, 20242 yr by mSparks

You are conflating visual realism with flight and system model realism.

There's no point in talking about it further until it releases and we have end user reviews. 

I'll be very interested to see what level of fidelity they reach. It's not gonna be high.

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

You are conflating visual realism with flight and system model realism.

There's no point in talking about it further until it releases and we have end user reviews. 

I'll be very interested to see what level of fidelity they reach. It's not gonna be high.

Hmm, are you sure you flightsim in VR? this stuff isn't new, it dates back to at least

https://www.thresholdx.net/opinion/xp11vr

and flyinside before that.

The only difference between then and now is the major and minor issues (on PS5 at least) have been resolved, and the cost [is about to have) fallen from $10s of thousands to $100s.

But that difference is the difference between 10s of sales and 10s of millions of sales.

Edited February 18, 20242 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

Hmm, are you sure you flightsim in VR? this stuff isn't new, it dates back to at least

https://www.thresholdx.net/opinion/xp11vr

and flyinside before that.

The only difference between then and now is the major and minor issues (on PS5 at least) have been resolved, and the cost [is about to have) fallen from $10s of thousands to $100s.

But that difference is the difference between 10s of sales and 10s of millions of sales.

Are you even paying attention?

I'm not and never have been debating the dis/advantages of VR.

Here let me review for you: a flight game will be dissatisfying to a flight simmer regardless of how good the VR is.

I don't understand what any of this has to do with the thread title?

War Thunder got big because of tanks not planes and Aces is a gamble on the success (or otherwise) of PlayStation VR.

Regardless,  both are the very antithesis of Laminar's vision of flight simulation. 

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Are you even paying attention?

I'm not and never have been debating the dis/advantages of VR.

Here let me review for you: a flight game will be dissatisfying to a flight simmer regardless of how good the VR is.

And I am debating the dis/advantages of VR.

->that this year is the year flight is simulated so realistically that millions of people will not be able to believe they were not just thrown into the cockpit of a WWII fighter plane.

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

I don't understand what any of this has to do with the thread title?

10s of millions of gamers are about to become/consider themselves flight simmers. That has implications and consequences.

particularly when they are VR exclusive

and no VR updates are planned for xplane in the next 12 months afaics.

Edited February 18, 20242 yr by mSparks

3 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

I don't understand what any of this has to do with the thread title?

War Thunder got big because of tanks not planes and Aces is a gamble on the success (or otherwise) of PlayStation VR.

 

Bob told us to get out of the original thread, and Sparks obliged 😉

Quote

Regardless,  both are the very antithesis of Laminar's vision of flight simulation. 

Amen, Brother.