You guys have gone and done it. This part of the conversation has no ending remark. No one can trump the other.

2 hours ago, Tierborn said:

This does not make sense to me.  How does an aircraft performing well in a sim proof a deficiency in the flight engine?

That's why I said perhaps. The consensus appears to be that this is one of or potentially the best/accurate flying aircraft in the sim but using an external flight model. Don't get me wrong, I like what MSFS provides today but if a developer uses an external method to deliver a better experience, that either means they know their own tool better or the stock engine wouldn't allow them to produce such a high fidelity aircraft. If the latter, my only hope is that some of this extra fidelity can be provided by the stock sim in the next release.

I'm really struggling to understand the community here. Shock, horror - an external FM coded specifically for a type of aircraft is very good. Why do you think Level-D simulations are all proprietary tables? All of those are "external FMs", and do not use any globalized FDEs. Because you can mold input, expectation, effect, and response around the type of aircraft you're attempting to emulate. You guys aren't arguing about the same thing, at all. MSFS is a globalised FDE. As is XP. As is P3D. None of these are used in any "big simulators", all Level-D sims are running their own physics, coded with tables, to type. 

This doesn't mean that MSFS, P3D, or XP are bad. They're just entirely different things.

Global FDE does not equal type specific FDE.

Anyway, I leave it at that!

34 minutes ago, Aamir said:

I'm really struggling to understand the community here.

I think a lot of people could say this daily 😂

 

39 minutes ago, Aamir said:

I'm really struggling to understand the community here. Shock, horror - an external FM coded specifically for a type of aircraft is very good. Why do you think Level-D simulations are all proprietary tables? All of those are "external FMs", and do not use any globalized FDEs. Because you can mold input, expectation, effect, and response around the type of aircraft you're attempting to emulate. You guys aren't arguing about the same thing, at all. MSFS is a globalised FDE. As is XP. As is P3D. None of these are used in any "big simulators", all Level-D sims are running their own physics, coded with tables, to type. 

This doesn't mean that MSFS, P3D, or XP are bad. They're just entirely different things.

Global FDE does not equal type specific FDE.

Anyway, I leave it at that!

I spent a couple of days at CAE in Montreal, doing some training. Got to talk to some of the engineers that designed those $20 million dollar sims. We discussed Boeing sims at that time, and they got all the flight model data directly from Boeing. What they had was all the data, that was accumulated from the test flights that Boeing did with the actual aircraft, They even had more than one set of data, from different aircraft, and they picked the set that was the best average of the different sets. This became the flight model that was used by the computers in the simulator. Then the check pilots flew the sim, to see if the flight model was accurate or not compared to the real aircraft. Only then was the simulator ready for the airline. The sim was then totally dismantled, shipped to the Airline, reassembled, and at that point the Airline Check Pilot flew several flights in the brand new sim, before the airline finally signed the acceptance papers.  

Edited July 22, 20232 yr by Bobsk8

5 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Uh no, A2A does not use MSFS flight model at all. Which says a lot.

What it does say, and what A2A have said themselves is this is how they've always implemented their aircraft for previous sims and now MSFS (they might have even have brought some code over from the previous Accu-Sim). Externalize as much as possible so that they have complete control over everything (systems, FM, etc) and are willing to put in the time to handcraft everything just like they want to. Ya, that's about all it says. And it's good that MSFS and its SDK got to a state where they were finally able to do that, compared to the early days when A2A were hitting roadblocks.
 

Edited July 22, 20232 yr by lwt1971

On 7/22/2023 at 9:59 AM, Fiorentoni said:

Uh no, A2A does not use MSFS flight model at all. Which says a lot.

Not really, from a marketing standpoint, its good to market that you developed a unique flight model.  We have other developers with good flying aircraft without the need to redo the MSFS flight model.  These developers just optimized the flight parameters.

On 7/19/2023 at 10:18 PM, polosim said:

It's the equivalent of giving up the secret of the Coca Cola recipe. 🤣 

Money talks!