Greetings,

For those who are currently flying it in its latest version If you'd take a moment to share your thoughts now that it's been out for awhile I'd really appreciate it. Been holding off due to price mainly.

Many thanks for any responses.

Dave

Hi @dbw1!  Well, value is a very personal thing.  I think that in terms of the work put into this model the price is fair.  How much you get out of it depends on how deeply you intend to "dive" into all of the beautifully modeled systems.  I'm an old (ex) C182 driver and I love the learning experience I get with this aircraft.  There are other really good aircraft models out there (and I own too many of them...LOL!).  Many of these carry the moniker "study level".  The CL650 is IMHO the only one that actually merits this designation.  By the way, it looks good, "flies" very nicely and is pretty good on resources for it's complexity.  Hope this helps.  I assume you have viewed the tutorials by Chazflyz and Foxtrot Alpha Aviation - if you need a final push.  

As the comment above says, it's a personal thing. I love flying the plane but find the requirement to walk around outside to the plane to do the prep work frankly tiresome. I absolutely get it's an additional layer of realism but it's not one I personally want and would prefer an EFB as with the earlier TBM900 (to that end I've created Streamdeck controls in Spad.Next to automate most of the work)

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by Matchstick

@Matchstick Regarding the walk around process.  The "save" feature allows you to have the aircraft in any state you wish (several different states, if you prefer) when you wish to "fly".  I use this feature often when I don't have the time (or inclination) to do a "true" cold and dark.  So, I don't think this is an issue at all.  Do you use this?

6 minutes ago, oldflyguy70 said:

@Matchstick Regarding the walk around process.  The "save" feature allows you to have the aircraft in any state you wish (several different states, if you prefer) when you wish to "fly".  I use this feature often when I don't have the time (or inclination) to do a "true" cold and dark.  So, I don't think this is an issue at all.  Do you use this?

It's fundamental design decision that doesn't work for me, but yes there are ways around it, though IMHO none are as good as just having the option for an EFB.

I've used both aircraft models since release.  The TBM does not come with an EFB.  I'm guessing you have added this (above my paygrade).  Of course the menu allows you to configure covers, chocks and the like.

28 minutes ago, oldflyguy70 said:

I've used both aircraft models since release.  The TBM does not come with an EFB.  I'm guessing you have added this (above my paygrade).  Of course the menu allows you to configure covers, chocks and the like.

Sorry you're right, I was misremembering the menu as an EFB.

It's a good, solid add-on, and it fills a gap that has existed for a long time in my simulator fleet.

I do have a few issues with it, though, which may or may not matter to others.

First, the developer has implemented a very nonstandard temperature compensation scheme in its internal altimetry system, which they claim is more accurate to the real world, but it results in the panel's measured altitude (used by the plane's instrumentation and automation) being different than that reported by the core X-Plane 11 simulation.  This results in the airplane's altitude differing--at times by more than several thousand feet--from what X-Plane is reporting via its datarefs to the outside world.  Where this makes for a big problem is if you use one of the offline ATC programs like Pilot2ATC or Radar Contact--they get the altitude reported by XP11 while you're flying at the panel-modified altitude, and so the controller gets quite unhappy with you for being way off your altitude.  Same goes for other external add-ons like X-ATC-Chatter, where you'll hear yourself reported as traffic at the wrong altitude.  The CL650 developer built in detection for some of the more popular online ATC clients for the VATSIM/IVAO/PilotEdge networks, and for them there is an option to turn off the altimetry corrections when an active connection on one of those select online ATC clients is detected, but the dev so far has arbitrarily opted not to offer the same options to those using offline ATC or other external add-ons.  I had to resort to a hack to trick the panel into detecting a non-existent faked VATSIM client in order to force the panel to play nice with Radar Contact offline ATC.

Second, the add-on is heavily oriented towards flying full "career mode" mission scenarios--in fact some features do not work unless you're flying the full profile starting with checking in at the FBO, preflight, etc.  If you want to just jump in and get going using the "non-persistent" versus full-monty "career" mode, there are some limitations.

Last, the documentation is really pretty sparse.  Be prepared to go on a hunt for the detailed info needed to understand/operate the systems, particularly the fairly complex ProLine 21 avionics suite.

 

I have the Challenger 650 and it is a really nice airplane. It does LNAV and VNAV very well and has great range (4000nm). The pop-up instruments are a great aid to seeing them more sharply and placing for convenience. It's a good looking bird and it does fly well;

The FBO and walk-around are cleverly done. A lot of work went into the design concept. However, I would like to see the option of a built-in flight ready state without going through the "save" function. Just load in the flight plan and fuel and go................

Now for XP12.

An EXCELENT airplane. It's a bit of a challenge in VR but I keep learning new ways to make it work in VR. Haven't figured out the walk around in VR yet though but If I start the sim without the career on I don't have to do the walk around. Expensive but worth it IMO....

I believe that what Bob Scott mentions in his post above may well get "addressed" by the fact that as far as LR mentioned regarding weather modelling for XP12, this geopotential height variation due to high or low temperatures will be natively modelled.

Authors like Totoritko who had to create their own models will have to disable it because XP12 weather will already encompass these effects.

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by jcomm

The Challenger 650 is easily one of the best add-ons out there if you want a corporate jet, FBO, and the level of detail included.  Also, the whole thing is a labor of love for what amounts to a two-person team, and what they have achieved is remarkable.  That said, it is more expensive than most add-ons, and its "value" just might not be there for you.  Also, Hot Start has provided several substantive/feature updates, and they are expected to updated it further to provide XP 12 compatibility as well.

Maybe checkout the Hot Start Discord to see more about it and the developers.

I really enjoy this AC.  As mentioned, the altitude reporting is an issue for offline ATC - in P2ATC etc.

However, one big plus for me is the ability to enter and label pilot fixes. You can enter and then label ENTRY ETP1 ETP2 EXIT etc.  Another is it will estimate your weights based on the pax count at the fbo and load it to the sim.

You can also dig into detail beyond normal pilot duties and get into a lot of systems detail.

Tha walk-around doesn't bother me, I allow a bit of time (45 minutes + currently) to do the very in-depth, detailed checklists, etc.

One of the best investments I have made.

Joe

It's a beautiful and deep simulation. However, I like to fly with unforseen random failures. This setting is not available.  I'm not a pilot who likes setting malfunctions manually like a levelD sim. "I think we will have a birdstrike today" is not my thing.  But that's just me. 

Jos

15 hours ago, beep747 said:

It's a beautiful and deep simulation. However, I like to fly with unforseen random failures. This setting is not available.  I'm not a pilot who likes setting malfunctions manually like a levelD sim. "I think we will have a birdstrike today" is not my thing.  But that's just me. 

Jos

I turn the failures off where the selection is available too.
I’d like to just be able to get in with engines turning, program the fms and go. 
I’ve already checked the weather and figured out where and how I want to go on ForeFlight before starting the sim. I’ve kept a ForeFlight subscription for flight simming after retirement on my own nickel. This CL650 looks like a great addon. I just want to avoid the extraneous stuff.