19 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

But I thought the flight model was all that matters? I'm confused. Will we have an accurate flight model or not?

Of course the vast majority of XP users wouldn't notice anyway. What they will notice are the enhanced graphics.

Of course we will get it, the most versatile flight model in the general flight sim arena! 👍

If the vast majority of XP users wouldn't care about its preminence in flight model, systems, avionics, etc., they wouldn't use XP as their primary sim probably! But they/we care! 😁

1 hour ago, Sims Smith said:

Austin wants all developer to use the latest "FM" but the reality is when a developer finishes an aircraft, they don't have resource/incentive to go back and keep updating their aircraft to work with latest FM.  Forcing latest "FM" ended bad in the past and that is why experimental flight model was introduced in the first place.

Certainly agree there.

If he wants everyone to use the new flightmodel for the upcoming sim XP12 then it could be very well  a version improvement that may be not be in the previous FM. Therefore that would make sense.

However I would hope they will keep that option available for users going forward because I believe there will always have tweeks along the way.  

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by BobFS88

7 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Of course we will get it, the most versatile flight model in the general flight sim arena! 👍

If the vast majority of XP users wouldn't care about its preminence in flight model, systems, avionics, etc., they wouldn't use XP as their primary sim probably! But they/we care! 😁

 

7 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Of course we will get it, the most versatile flight model in the general flight sim arena! 👍

If the vast majority of XP users wouldn't care about its preminence in flight model, systems, avionics, etc., they wouldn't use XP as their primary sim probably! But they/we care! 😁

I'm saying that for the vast majority of XP users Meyers experimental flight model was irrelavent

Edited January 17, 20224 yr by jarmstro

I am pretty sure there is a lot of WIP in that trailer because I saw the same fat bottom cloud that sits on a layer look that XP11 has today. I really hope they fix that before release. I also saw some XP11 style autogen.  I really did like the night lighting and reflections so this is progress but not ready for release.

2 hours ago, jarmstro said:

But I thought the flight model was all that matters? I'm confused. Will we have an accurate flight model or not?

Of course the vast majority of XP users wouldn't notice anyway. What they will notice are the enhanced graphics.

You're exactly right.

The weird thing with X-Plane is now you have people saying "don't move to the improved flight model, give us the older inferior version and let us decide!".

So now there is no "X-Plane's flight model is superior", that comes down to "which flight model are you using?".

So if that argument can't be had unless both sides are saying they are on the same "version" flight model, what else is there?  Graphics.

2 hours ago, BobFS88 said:

This is news, where did you hear that from?

The purpose of the experimental flight model was "allows developers and users to try the changes for quite a while before they become official." as quoted from the Xplane Developers website. Why would they remove an option that has given X Plane something of an advantage to maintain stability for users when making changes to the FM rather than force whole sell changes to everyone regardless, that can be potentially be disruptive (if they not right) to the over all experience. It doesn't make sense.

 

It was in .org forum, I don't exactly remember who said that but it was from someone credible.

I don't think there is anything wrong with removing the experimental flight model, as its purpose was to not force developers into implementing the changes made to the flight model during X-Plane 11's run into their aircraft, so they could use the flight model that came with X-Plane 11.00 instead. X-Plane 12 is a completely new simulator and hence comes with a brand new flight model out of the box, without any opt-in experimental flight model. I wouldn't be surprised if there will be an experimental flight model during X-Plane 12's run though, containing changes made to the flight model since X-Plane 12.00's release, just like X-Plane 11's experimental flight model.

2 minutes ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

I wouldn't be surprised if there will be an experimental flight model during X-Plane 12's run though, containing changes made to the flight model since X-Plane 12.00's release, just like X-Plane 11's experimental flight model.

That's what I come to realize as well and it would make sense.

35 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

You're exactly right.

The weird thing with X-Plane is now you have people saying "don't move to the improved flight model, give us the older inferior version and let us decide!".

So now there is no "X-Plane's flight model is superior", that comes down to "which flight model are you using?".

So if that argument can't be had unless both sides are saying they are on the same "version" flight model, what else is there?  Graphics.

Something that is better, can be made even better. Not that hard to grasp! 😁

2 hours ago, Gulfstream said:

The weird thing with X-Plane is now you have people saying "don't move to the improved flight model, give us the older inferior version and let us decide!".

Where are they saying that?? Experimental was provided as mentioned to developers could start using the updated one without xplane breaking all the older planes. It was done it seems with some fore  thought or xplane would have being a mess. In fact it is now enables in the model by the developers for most new planes , for them you cant turn it off unless you edit the model.

9 hours ago, Greazer said:

I would start to consider, if:  1) XP has proper multithreading / perf fixes.  2) there is attention to ground level detail / procedural grass with good coverage and realism. 3) it works with XP11 sceneries 4) it renders all or close to all cloud types. 5) no more experimental flight model, just works and it has realistic FM wind effects modeling and the env has air currents modeled.

I'm hoping for better weather depiction & transitions and enhanced ATC. Right now XP11 with ORBX TE and a few must have add-ons is my preferred sim and it will continue to be until XP12 matures.

Don't really care about the 'Bus so much but that wet runway at night was sssswwweeeeeeeet.

9 hours ago, Murmur said:

Something that is better, can be made even better. Not that hard to grasp! 😁

This is something that has always confused me as I have never had a coherent answer to this question - What exactly, with regard to the standard flight model, needs to be improved? 

8 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

This is something that has always confused me as I have never had a coherent answer to this question - What exactly, with regard to the standard flight model, needs to be improved? 

They definitely need work on the tail draggers...  even with proper footwork the ones I flew went off the runway during takeoff and same for landing.

3 hours ago, jarmstro said:

This is something that has always confused me as I have never had a coherent answer to this question - What exactly, with regard to the standard flight model, needs to be improved? 

Me too. It's hard to grasp how people can change so quickly from "It's all great and needs no improvement, especially not graphically and flight model wise and everyone saying otherwise is a hater" to "I can't wait for all the graphical goodness to finally come to me and also there will be a brand new flight model, yay". 

But who am I...

Edited January 18, 20224 yr by rka

3 hours ago, rka said:

Me too. It's hard to grasp how people can change so quickly from "It's all great and needs no improvement, especially not graphically and flight model wise and everyone saying otherwise is a hater" to "I can't wait for all the graphical goodness to finally come to me and also there will be a brand new flight model, yay". 

But who am I...

Because you expect this to be the same people?

But hey, everyone is different and expectations will be different too.