I am really trying to like this sim. I recognise it is new and released far too early. I can make allowances. I tried the Cub on a bland flight with absolutely ZERO wind, low temperatures, no clouds, no gusts, at several different times of the day and tried it on both offered flight models and on the "legacy" model set to hard easy and everything in between. This aircraft was moving around all by itself, in zero wind and zero gusts, zero thermals, and in completely still air.

The controls menu is a travesty of design - awkward, utterly unintuitive and all style over substance. It took me nearly half an hour just to find a couple of controls and set them up. I set trim up and down on two buttons. The aircraft started with maximum down trim and would not unstick, so I slewed it up 2000 feet and the down trim promptly made it dive straight down to the ground. So I tried up trim and that took almost ten seconds to recover from full down trim to vaguely up. After taking off I gently pressed down trim and it went full down.

As I observed from all the videos, pitch stability is ridiculously touchy. Roll is a little better, but overall any finesse of control is far harder than a real tail dragger. It goes all over the place by itself, almost with zero input.

I'll try a few other types.

I've set up my controls - Thrustmaster hotas, MFG pedals, CH quad, without a problem.  Quite intuitive when you get used to it.

Being flying all day, Cessna 172, 280, and the Amphib.  Very smooth and responsive controls.

The problem is on your end mate.

Lon Duncombe

   

1 minute ago, Lon Duncombe said:

I've set up my controls - Thrustmaster hotas, MFG pedals, CH quad, without a problem.  Quite intuitive when you get used to it.

Being flying all day, Cessna 172, 280, and the Amphib.  Very smooth and responsive controls.

The problem is on your end mate.

Lon Duncombe

   

He won't accept that though

Ok I'll try again then chaps. Still mystified why an aircraft would wander all over the place by itself in zero wind and absolutely still air. 

Your control sensitivity curve needs dropping down (a lot) and it will be fine. The MiG-29 in DCS World is the same until you alter the curves on that, and nobody says DCS World is cack. It's a user error.

I've just flown the 787 from Manchester to Paris and came in for a visual approach on 26. I would hardly have been able to do that if the controls did not work.

You are right about the GUI though, it could be a little bit more intuitive. I think some of that is due to it being geared for 'tabbing' around with a console controller at some point down the line.

Edited August 19, 20205 yr by Chock

6 minutes ago, robert young said:

I am really trying to like this sim.

The slight constant motion of aircraft is to prevent complaints about the sim "flying on rails."  It's basically an exaggeration of the very subtle movements in P3D.

I had absolutely no problems whatsoever with trim.  The trim controls acts like P3D did on medium repeat.  I used it with both joystick button and keyboard keys.

I didn't have any complaints about stability, but we aren't using the same controls.  It may help if you adjust the controls sensitivity in the sim.

We've already got amateurs adjusting aircraft parameters to solve those problems but apparently no "professionals" have tried it yet.

If you are unable or unwilling to fix things, go back to P3D or XPlane or whatever.

Hook

Also Robert did you turn off Camera Shake? I find this overdoes everything. I would like a setting to adjust it.

 

In several decades of flying I have never witnessed any trimmed aircraft moving around by itself in still air. Unless a gust of wind or thermal hits it, it DOES fly on rails! Thanks anyway.

3 minutes ago, Chock said:

The MiG-29 in DCS World is the same until you alter the curves on that, and nobody says DCS World is cack.

DCS is what made me appreciate a good "feeling" flight model and all the benefits that it brings.

2 minutes ago, michaelray said:

Also Robert did you turn off Camera Shake? I find this overdoes everything. I would like a setting to adjust it.

 

Thanks Michael, I tried all sorts of camera settings. But it is not the camera. The aircraft is definitely moving (particularly in yaw) all by itself.

Dirt on the controller contacts causing jitter maybe? Try a bit of a bigger null zone and see if that kills it. If it does, a blast of compressed air, or switch cleaner will sort it, and if you haven't got any of that, at a push you can use WD-40 with that little straw jammed through a screw hole on the controller.

Edited August 19, 20205 yr by Chock

3 minutes ago, robert young said:

In several decades of flying I have never witnessed any trimmed aircraft moving around by itself in still air. Unless a gust of wind or thermal hits it, it DOES fly on rails! Thanks anyway.

You know this, I know this, and there are still a lot of complaints about flying on rails. I keep telling them it's not a flight model problem but an atmospheric problem, but no one seems to care.  MSFS removes the argument.

(Except that it doesn't, but that's another story and can of worms. I'll wait for people to figure it out.)

Hook

I don't disagree. It is not possible to perfectly simulate one of those early morning flights in perfectly still air.

I'm beginning to think that all the talk of thousands of points being aerodynamically simulated on the airframe is a furphy.

Edited August 19, 20205 yr by michaelray
added text

12 minutes ago, LHookins said:

We've already got amateurs adjusting aircraft parameters to solve those problems but apparently no "professionals" have tried it yet.

Funny thing how people are jumping right into the configuration files for the aircraft to find out what can be tuned.  This is the mindset of a developer, even an amateur one.  The question is not how broken something is, but is it possible to fix?

However, we have someone with a reputation as a developer who doesn't seem to care about the files and fixing the aircraft.  If no one had praised him for his previous efforts, I'd never have taken him for a developer at all, and would have called him out on it if he claimed any expertise.  He is not displaying a developer mindset.

Why is this?  Well, in the past we've seen developers attempting to defend their P3D work by bashing MSFS.  Robert has been bashing MSFS the whole time he's been here. I don't know if he has current P3D work.

Now, I know from private conversations that Robert is not the only Big Name who is quite unhappy with MSFS.  But the first thing to do is see what we can fix.  Like I posted in an earlier thread, it's not a problem, it's an opportunity.

None of this means I like everything about the MSFS flight model myself, but I'm not worried about things I might be able to fix.

Hook

12 minutes ago, michaelray said:

I'm beginning to think that all the talk of thousands of points being aerodynamically simulated on the airframe is a furphy.

I strongly suspect you're right.  One French forum said as much, that the variables were there but all zero.  No idea what the release version looks like, but I doubt it's different.

Similar to the adverse yaw;  the variables are there but they're basically zero and there is no effect on the aircraft.

Hook