Honestly as an FSX and X-Plane user, and answering directly to the OP regarding the use of a program like a flight simulator to train for a PPL / ATPL, I wouldn't recommend other than ELITE.

 

It filters all of the unnecessary stuff we have and look for in this games, and focuses on what really matters for trainning IFR, specially under IMC.

 

For learning to fly the aircraft no pc based sim should even be considered. They can all be useful though, once you learned to fly already...

Honestly as an FSX and X-Plane user, and answering directly to the OP regarding the use of a program like a flight simulator to train for a PPL / ATPL, I wouldn't recommend other than ELITE.

 

It filters all of the unnecessary stuff we have and look for in this games, and focuses on what really matters for trainning IFR, specially under IMC.

 

For learning to fly the aircraft no pc based sim should even be considered. They can all be useful though, once you learned to fly already...

He is working on his PPL not a instrument rating, visual flight rules !

 

That's why I like the white out in XPX when in IMC !

He is working on his PPL not a instrument rating, visual flight rules !

 

That's why I like the white out in XPX when in IMC !

 

I can agree from that pov. Actually some years ago I used fs9 to train emmergencies around the areas I usually covered in my glider flights, based on an excellent Portugal scenery ( by PTSim ), including autogen, landclas sand mesh, but it would be a lot better should X-Plane 10 and now 11 have been available back then.

 

I know that last year a great photoscenery for mainland Portugal has been commercially released though, and that there is another Ortho-based freeware project going on, but I completely gave up on MSFS and derivates some months ago and couldn't go back, specially now that I had my taste of XP11 and it's already available features plus anything that can come long it's journey.

 

Let's hope that Austin does something for the poor ground physics, that awful screetching sound, and the way variable wind varies when reported in a METAR - way to fast ( I could send him data from my own since that's what I do for real :-) )

 

Having these three points fine tuned , ah! and the fact that a reciprocating engine or even an injected one will not keep work at FL300 and above like the C172 in XP11 still does, will certainly bring this sim closer to what a student PPL pilot would like to be able to have in a PC based sim.

I can agree from that pov. Actually some years ago I used fs9 to train emmergencies around the areas I usually covered in my glider flights, based on an excellent Portugal scenery ( by PTSim ), including autogen, landclas sand mesh, but it would be a lot better should X-Plane 10 and now 11 have been available back then.

 

I know that last year a great photoscenery for mainland Portugal has been commercially released though, and that there is another Ortho-based freeware project going on, but I completely gave up on MSFS and derivates some months ago and couldn't go back, specially now that I had my taste of XP11 and it's already available features plus anything that can come long it's journey.

 

Let's hope that Austin does something for the poor ground physics, that awful screetching sound, and the way variable wind varies when reported in a METAR - way to fast ( I could send him data from my own since that's what I do for real :-) )

 

Having these three points fine tuned , ah! and the fact that a reciprocating engine or even an injected one will not keep work at FL300 and above like the C172 in XP11 still does, will certainly bring this sim closer to what a student PPL pilot would like to be able to have in a PC based sim.

Just keep harassing Austin and your points will get some attention hopefully!

 

Are you a meteorologist or something?

Just keep harassing Austin and your points will get some attention hopefully!

 

Are you a meteorologist or something?

 

Yep! ( to both :-) )

Having these three points fine tuned , ah! and the fact that a reciprocating engine or even an injected one will not keep work at FL300 and above like the C172 in XP11 still does, will certainly bring this sim closer to what a student PPL pilot would like to be able to have in a PC based sim.

 

The current altitude world record for a N.A. reciprocating engine should be 35.000 ft. It's a Lycoming O-320, basically the same engine of a C172P, although the ignition system is not standard (but it shows the engine can run at such altitudes):

 

http://www.electroair.net/our_history.html

 

But yes, probably in X-Plane the engines keep running too easily at high altitudes and I would like to see that behaviour improved as well. But what is the practical utility of it? After all, the only way to put the engine in such a situation is to unrealistically slew the aircraft at a high altitude. Can you slew the aircraft at 40.000 ft in ELITE? :smile: I think improving that for now should be at the bottom of the lis,t after a lot of many other things. Probably even less important than improving sun and moon ephemeris.

If you're working on a Private Pilot Certificate (using a c172) and want to use a sim to enhance your training while having FUN, then the A2A 172 for FSX or P3D is what I would recommend. FSX is a more complete platform because of add-ons like Active Sky 2016 and a much better default ATC simulation.

 

The A2A airplanes are IMHO works of art, with configurable GPS units, accurate FDs, and modeled systems. Even though Airfoil Labs 172 is a very nice add-on for XP 10, some users have experienced bugs with the latest version, so I can't confidently recommend it. The A2A version has been around longer, it's updated, and reliable.

 

If the student does not have a yoke, pedals, and a throttle quadrant, then these items should also be considered.

After learning to fly my friends Cessna 150 one summer I can say that there is no way a simulator can mimic real flight in a light aircraft. 

After learning to fly my friends Cessna 150 one summer I can say that there is no way a simulator can mimic real flight in a light aircraft. 

As a CFII for Airplane Single Engine Land with more than 500h as an Instructor in a c172n r s models, I say that a person can speed up & augment their learning using a simulator.

I am talking about seat of the pants flying and not just learning instruments and procedures. Read my post again,,I said "mimic real flight"

Just like driving a racing car game isn't going to turn you into an F1 racing driving

I am talking about seat of the pants flying and not just learning instruments and procedures. Read my post again,,I said "mimic real flight"

Pilots no longer rely on "seat of the pants" flying. They rely on integrated flight instruction , practice, and proficiency. 90% of real pilot training is ground school and ADM. As a matter of fact most accident are caused by Pilot error. Safety is always priority #1.

 

A monkey can be taught how to move the controls. There's a reason why most Commercial Pilots have to train on sims before they fly the real the real thing. I'm not trying to start a debate with you. It's just that your statement was not accurate. That's all I will say about this topic.

The current altitude world record for a N.A. reciprocating engine should be 35.000 ft. It's a Lycoming O-320, basically the same engine of a C172P, although the ignition system is not standard (but it shows the engine can run at such altitudes):

 

http://www.electroair.net/our_history.html

 

But yes, probably in X-Plane the engines keep running too easily at high altitudes and I would like to see that behaviour improved as well. But what is the practical utility of it? After all, the only way to put the engine in such a situation is to unrealistically slew the aircraft at a high altitude. Can you slew the aircraft at 40.000 ft in ELITE? :smile: I think improving that for now should be at the bottom of the lis,t after a lot of many other things. Probably even less important than improving sun and moon ephemeris.

 

Great info!  Wasn't even aware of it. That's great to learn - Thx!

After learning to fly my friends Cessna 150 one summer I can say that there is no way a simulator can mimic real flight in a light aircraft. 

What does happen, is that a pilots brain fills in , much of what's missing with a desktop sim. Considering most desktops have no movement, even the sense of feel can be available.  On the other hand, if a simmer could feel the effects of real life G-forces, they wouldn't be doing near the maneuvering they do with sim airplanes...

For learning to fly the aircraft no pc based sim should even be considered. They can all be useful though, once you learned to fly already...

 

I agree, at least about the last part. I've recently started my PPL training as well and it's absolutely correct that a sim won't teach you how to fly the aircraft. However, I've found it easy to replicate many real-world maneuvers in the sim, such as the effect of different power settings, or the angle of attack for example. The result may not be 100% true to life, but close enough in many cases.

 

I think the issue isn't that the sim's realism isn't high enough. The simple reason why a sim isn't any good for learning to fly is that you don't have an instructor sitting next to you, teaching you how to do it! Although it's possible to figure out some of the basics by yourself, but that will only get you so far, and you might end up "learning" something the wrong way.

 

 

Anyway, I wouldn't want to miss X-Plane (or any other sim, for that matter) as a training aid. No, it won't teach you how to fly a plane, but I've found it to be extremely valuable to learn about many things that you need to know in order to get you license: The effect air pressure has on an altimeter, the way a trim tab works, how to read taxiway signs, or the way flaps increase lift (and drag), just to give some examples. You learn about all those things during training, but I've found much of it much easier to understand because I've seen it previously in the sim (even though I often had a totally wrong idea about how something works...   ).

 

Also, the sim is a great tool to train some basic procedures or help memorize checklists. Perhaps not everybody realises that even when flying VFR in a little bugsmasher, there are a lot of rules and procedures one must adhere to, from preflight briefings to ATC clearances and descent checklists. Not to mention basic navigation skills (using a paper map and a ruler rather than a fancy GPS) to make sure you don't stray into the next Charlie airspace by accident and having to be "escorted" out of it. 

 

X-Plane is great, by the way, for flight preparation: Thanks to free orthophoto scenery (Ortho4XP) and W2XP buildings it's easy to navigate by real-world charts, in order to get a rough idea of what the terrain on a certain flight will be like.