And why do we have to have Water on High? It eats my FPS away... for no better visual appearance.

(I could be completely WRONG) but what I think is that HIGH 2.0 and MAX 2.0 are CPU bound... they don't rely on the GPU to 'render' the kind of water you see with all the shadows and stuff...'maybe' the lesser values DO make full usage of the GPU, thus, increasing the number of instructions for the GPU to process, its a theory, but to me makes sense given what I've observed so far. it simply brings 'balance' to CPU/GPU interaction (specially when using BP=0)

(I could be completely WRONG) but what I think is that HIGH 2.0 and MAX 2.0 are CPU bound... they don't rely on the GPU to 'render' the kind of water you see with all the shadows and stuff...'maybe' the lesser values DO make full usage of the GPU, thus, increasing the number of instructions for the GPU to process, its a theory, but to me makes sense given what I've observed so far. it simply brings 'balance' to CPU/GPU interaction (specially when using BP=0)

I understood your explanation completely. While I do understand that CPU has no device giving it orders, but rather software instructions, and GPU has to sync with the CPU... but still rather unclear to me, why doesn't it simply (s)lower the FPS, like the CPU does. Or better said, tell CPU to lower the speed because it has to keep up - this is a question you probably can't answer, but I see it as a good one. I've not seen on my computer (yet) any other games crash, not even heavy games like Crysis which use all the resources they can take.It's very much possible that Low vs. High is software vs. GPU, but I just did a test and saw no effect in GPU Load, which is my primary measurement not to push the GPU to the limit, thus avoiding artifacts.

Or better said, tell CPU to lower the speed because it has to keep up - this is a question you probably can't answer, but I see it as a good one.

each CPU cycle is precious, no one in his/her right mind will throttle it, thats why we have BufferPools... it can batch process calls/requests that FSX will later need (and extract them from the pool). BP=0 removes a 'fail safe' mechanism, so in order to make use of BP=0 you have to find a sweet spot where the CPU doesn't stall the GPU with commands... trial and error being (unfortunately) the only way to achieve this.Remember one more thing... D3D is an API, FSX talks to this API, sends commands to this API, FSX doesn't know (or care) what video card you have, the API comunicates on a low level with the hardware telling 'what' to 'draw' GPU's have the capability to process an incredible ammount of instructions they have multiple cores (or mini cores) so they kind of work more like doing parallel processing, whereas the CPU serializes stuff. IF you have an incredible fast CPU sending an incredible ammount of instructions, the GPU will invariably become a blottleneck! EVEN though we have been toldm countless times FSX is CPU bound (which is true) however, setting BP=0 shifts the balance toward the GPU, which, depending on your setup can be a good or a bad thing...listen, don't be surprised when people with Fermi's claim that BP=0 is heaven for them... the faster the card, the better chance BP=0 will work for you. However. if you have a fermi, but then a 9Ghz CPU shows up.. boom, you are screwed... thats why BP=0 is VERY VERY specific to your hardware.. it could work today, and fail (or succeed) if you change your hardware.. Microsoft was VERY smart to create this pool!!! its actually not a bad thing, I would have done the same, however.. for some, NOT having the pool is great :)

I just did a test and saw no effect in GPU Load, which is my primary measurement not to push the GPU to the limit, thus avoiding artifacts.

if the command buffer is filled you will not see a high GPU usage! only after a flush, you'll see it going to 100% in fact.. the GPU usage you see is the one for the card actually doing the 'rendering' thats called user mode... GPU usage for low level kernel operations is called system mode, you won't see that in a GPU monitor application ;)Only cards with MANY processing cores will keep up! due to their ability to 'process' MORE instructions from the buffer ring faster. The GTX 470 and GTX 480 almost double the number of processing cores, so again.. no surprise when you see people with newer ATI's or Fermi's claiming finally BP=0 works for them

a GPU, receives 'instructions' (to render triangles) from a CPU... if the CPU delivers more instructions to the GPU than what it is able to hanlde you stall it, the GPU will go crazy, get confused, desperately trying to get in sync (and the CPU will never stop sending the instructions) so you enter into a spiral of death :) the driver crashes, TDR detects a dead driver, restarts it, and while doing all that the CPU keeps sending instructions for the video driver to process.. no wonder you see snow :) And, to make something absolutely clear.. (specially to NOK and all the naysayers), I never said having BufferPools with high values was 'bad' in fact, it is designed like that FOR A REASON... A good reason, however.. there are people like me and countless others that want to squeeze the last drop of juice from the orange.. thats why we do it! if you don't want to experiment, then, for god sake leave us alone, ignore this thread and try something positive to do instead of trolling.

Edited update: I misreported my BP, it is actuay BP=1000000 as default RTM and I may go back to default SP1/2 BP of 4MB to see if this "reset" works there as well, so far it is like it should be, just solid performance, no stutters and maintains terrain.Nice Job!FSX as all previous versions run triangulation algorithms on the CPU, as they say "in software" this is as old games where done in the past.Some of us also like to "squeeze the last drop of juice from the orange" in other ways as in Very high IQ.BP-0 cannot keep the terrain fresh at almost any speed compared to BP=stock unless you lower various settings and such, I find that personally unexceptabel. So my quest is to find the right compromise of BP=X settings while still keeping everything max in the display driver as well as in the FSX display settings. Weird thing though, after setting FSX up with ALL settings max every single one including traffic to monitor and test ram settings, now after setting it back to my usual settings it flies like a new sim all the while using Poolsize=500000! ??? I noticed >some of the shader files where updated and it seems that this is more than just the result of checking the "ground shadows and Bloom" as those are about the only ones I dont usually fly with.I find this just almost too good to be true, but...its there....max IQ, no stutters flying fast in outside views panning etc.So basically set FSX cfg Back to BP=1000000, Start game, Fly, Enter display menu set ALL to MAX (Traffic everything -just not DX10), Fly a bit and Shut down, Restart FSX, reset to desired settings and fly! Someone please try it so that I know if I'm just dreaming.After the above with Poolsize=1000000 I can fly PNW with VDense AG, and VDense scenery in a complex F16 in spot with frames locked at 34 and it is smooth as glass, terrain is much better then BP=0 and I'm good!Was about to go explorring the "Core park" feature of Win7 to look for other solutions (doubtful I know) as it has been reported to cause spikes and microstutters in a few apps, but right now am good.Settings1920x1200x32 Nhancer >8xsAA with Gama correction, 16xAniso, Vsync=on Texture filtering=High QualityFSX=Aniso, Max mesh, texture detail, max Water all of them except AG is at Very dense, Scenery is at Very dense, Bloom is off (for now) Ground shadows are off, aircraft all maxed, self shadows, shadows on ground. detailed clouds, draw distance 70.Nv 285GTX 197.15 (haven't treid the .25 yet) I7-920 @ 4200 12Gb ram, Creative fatl1ty sound, win7-64-Ult

BP-0 cannot keep the terrain fresh at almost any speed compared to BP=stock unless you lower various settings and such, I find that personally unexceptabel.

It is possible, that given the speed you are running your memory at and the low latency plus a 4.2 Ghz CPU helps!! so I would not be surprised that probably your sweet spot is definitely BP=500000 its a small enough pool where the CPU can 'fetch' (at incredible speed) anything.By the way... Do you, by any chance have Manhattan X and FSDT Kennedy? do multiple 360's positioned between Manhattan X and the FSDT Kennedy scenery in the aircraft with the shortest turn radius at level flight (aprox 2000Ft) at dusk in weather. NO AI, NO cars, dense Autogen, Dense Scenery complexity, only stress the GPU bound options, try with BP=0 and BP=500000 run vsync OFF at unlimited frames... you know what this test acomplishes right? imagine trying to render 70-80 frames per seconds in a heavy scenery area... this is the KILLER test. this is what I use to KILL my card, because I know the above situation will NEVER present itself. I tweak with the above just for reference.

Was about to go explorring the "Core park" feature of Win7 to look for other solutions (doubtful I know) as it has been reported to cause spikes and microstutters in a few apps, but right now am good.

Interesting, I was reading about it yesterday... not sure If I want to do it just before cross the Pond 2010 :)

It is possible, that given the speed you are running your memory at and the low latency plus a 4.2 Ghz CPU helps!! so I would not be surprised that probably your sweet spot is definitely BP=500000 its a small enough pool where the CPU can 'fetch' (at incredible speed) anything.By the way... Do you, by any chance have Manhattan X and FSDT Kennedy? do multiple 360's positioned between Manhattan X and the FSDT Kennedy scenery in the aircraft with the shortest turn radius at level flight (aprox 2000Ft) at dusk in weather. NO AI, NO cars, dense Autogen, Dense Scenery complexity, only stress the GPU bound options, try with BP=0 and BP=500000 run vsync OFF at unlimited frames... you know what this test acomplishes right? imagine trying to render 70-80 frames per seconds in a heavy scenery area... this is the KILLER test. this is what I use to KILL my card, because I know the above situation will NEVER present itself. I tweak with the above just for reference.

Yes, I have both MX & DTJFK, (try that over DT-Kord) but do to the fact of flat terrain I prefer other saturated areas for tuning besides just that area.FlyTampa Hong Kong is a good comination of Terrain Mesh, 3D models, lots of AG so it suits almost any situation, Aerosoft SanFran and VFR London are good too. Test with all available complex AC as well as flying fast and low...

I had to go back and edit, I had set BP=1000000 just like default RTM and not as I reported earlier (BP=500000), and I may go back and try 4MB default SP1/2 as I mentioned the rewritten shader files seems to have done something very good.

Well.. you are (of all of us) the one with the 'faster' video card, so, as I said, if BP=0 effectively 'shifts' the balance in FSX to make it more GPU dependant, then a faster vid card is the ticket, you could, with that card probably run aniso 16, AA, and vsync on :)

Yes: A whole new world. AA-8x, Aniso - 16x, Quality w/full Trilinear, but the ATI card still has an issue with vSync. A fellow has a fix (D3DOveride.exe, a part of RivaTuner) over in the hardware -- video cards - but it causes other problems, so I'm relying on ATITools at this moment, and reading as much as I can. Time is the issue, too! I can't fly, tweak, explore PNW, go to work, eat and sleep in the time available. Then there's my wife..... :(

I had to go back and edit, I had set BP=1000000 just like default RTM and not as I reported earlier (BP=500000), and I may go back and try 4MB default SP1/2 as I mentioned the rewritten shader files seems to have done something very good.

Tried SP1/SP2 default of BP=4000000 but Nope, BP=1000000 as default RTM is tops here, terrain stays in place better than BP=0 as mentioned and is smooth as silk.Back to flying...

Tried SP1/SP2 default of BP=4000000 but Nope, BP=1000000 as default RTM is tops here, terrain stays in place better than BP=0 as mentioned and is smooth as silk.Back to flying...

Hey, can you post your entire FSX.cfg file? (without the trusted section) I want to take a look at something...

I'll throw my latest in here too, *******:CCC:- AA - 8x; AF - 16X; Cat A.I. Advanced; MipMap - Quality; Vert Refr. - Always on; AA Mode Adv. Multi_S.TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=60UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=0WideViewAspect=TrueFIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.125CLOUD_DRAW_DISTANCE=3DETAILED_CLOUDS=1CLOUD_COVERAGE_DENSITY=8AirlineDensity=25GADensity=25FreewayDensity=25LOD_RADIUS=4.500000MESH_COMPLEXITY=60MESH_RESOLUTION=22TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=28AUTOGEN_DENSITY=2DETAIL_TEXTURE=1WATER_EFFECTS=4TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_TREES_PER_CELL=800TERRAIN_MAX_AUTOGEN_BUILDINGS_PER_CELL=700[DISPLAY.Device.ASUS EAH5870 Series.0]Mode=3840x1024x16Anisotropic=1ATITools abandoned. With these (CCC) settings, the A2A Spit @300+at zero ft - ~48fps.at 3000 ft - ~60fpsTaken between FTX PNW Arlington and KPAE, MS Fair Weather, REX clouds 1024.Pretty huge difference from having to lock the 9800GTX at 22 and still have the minor stutters, limited water, weather and traffic. I haven't locked this down to, say, 30 and ramped up the detail yet. Prior to the rebuild BP would not work as it does now - even with the 8900 it was very much smoother, but not much in the way of frames. Also the vSync "effect" is not so noticeable. I'd be interested to know if anyone else is trying the BP mod while using the ATI card. I think this find is incredible.

Hey, can you post your entire FSX.cfg file? (without the trusted section) I want to take a look at something...

Sure...[sOUND]AmbientUIMusicVolume=-6.000000SOUND=1SOUND_QUALITY=2SOUND_LOD=0UISound=1AmbientUI=1PrimaryDevice={095CCB64-3B58-4EF6-9D31-4DE89B7E83CB}VoiceDevice={095CCB64-3B58-4EF6-9D31-4DE89B7E83CB}SOUND_FADER1=0.570000SOUND_FADER2=0.500000SOUND_FADER3=0.670000SOUND_FADER4=0.500000AmbientUIMusic=FSX02[Display]ChangeTime=4.000000TransitionTime=4.000000ActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255ActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=0,28,140,64NonActiveWindowTitleTextColor=255,255,255NonActiveWindowTitleBackGroundColor=24,33,87,64InfoUpperRightTextColor=255,0,0InfoUpperRightBackGroundColor=0,0,0,0InfoLowerLeftTextColor=255,255,255InfoLowerLeftBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128InfoLowerRightTextColor=255,255,255InfoLowerRightBackGroundColor=255,0,0,128InfoBrakesEnable=TrueInfoParkingBrakesEnable=TrueInfoPauseEnable=TrueInfoSlewEnable=TrueInfoStallEnable=TrueInfoOverspeedEnable=TrueBLOOM_EFFECTS=0SKINNED_ANIMATIONS=1TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=80UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=34WideViewAspect=False[Main]User Objects=Airplane, HelicopterSimObjectPaths.0=SimObjects\AirplanesSimObjectPaths.1=SimObjects\RotorcraftSimObjectPaths.2=SimObjects\GroundVehiclesSimObjectPaths.3=SimObjects\BoatsSimObjectPaths.4=SimObjects\AnimalsSimObjectPaths.5=SimObjects\MiscSimObjectPaths.6=MyTraffic\aircraftMaximized=1Location=440,190,1480,968,\\.\DISPLAY1HideMenuNormal=0HideMenuFullscreen=1ProcSpeed=8635PerfBucket=7[PANELS]IMAGE_QUALITY=1DEFAULT_VIEW=0QUICKTIPS=1PANEL_OPACITY=100PANEL_MASKING=1PANEL_STRETCHING=1UNITS_OF_MEASURE=0[Weather]WindshieldPrecipitationEffects=1MinGustTime=10MaxGustTime=500MinGustRampSpeed=1MaxGustRampSpeed=200MinVarTime=5MaxVarTime=50MinVarRampSpeed=10MaxVarRampSpeed=75TurbulenceScale=1.000000WeatherServerAddress=fs2k.zone.comWeatherServerPort=80WeatherGraphDataInDialog=0AdjustForMagVarInDialog=1DynamicWeather=0DownloadWindsAloft=0DisableTurbulence=0CLOUD_DRAW_DISTANCE=4DETAILED_CLOUDS=1CLOUD_COVERAGE_DENSITY=6THERMAL_VISUALS=0[DISPLAY.Device.NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285.0]Mode=1920x1200x32Anisotropic=1[CONTROLS]Controls_Default=StandardControls_Current=StandardKBDAIL=64KBDELEV=64KBDRUD=64[GRAPHICS]SHADER_CACHE_PRIMED=1693458432TEXTURE_MAX_LOAD=1024NUM_LIGHTS=8AIRCRAFT_SHADOWS=1AIRCRAFT_REFLECTIONS=1COCKPIT_HIGH_LOD=1LANDING_LIGHTS=1AC_SELF_SHADOW=1EFFECTS_QUALITY=2GROUND_SHADOWS=0TEXTURE_QUALITY=3IMAGE_QUALITY=0See_Self=1Text_Scroll=1SHADER_CACHE_PRIMED_10=1693458432D3D10=0[TextInfo.1]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5WindDirectionAndSpeed=1,6[TextInfo.2]FrameRate=1,1LockedFrameRate=1,2GForce=1,3FuelPercentage=1,4[TextInfo.3]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5WindDirectionAndSpeed=1,6FrameRate=2,1LockedFrameRate=2,2GForce=2,3FuelPercentage=2,4[slewTextInfo.1]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5[slewTextInfo.2]FrameRate=1,1LockedFrameRate=1,2[slewTextInfo.3]Latitude=1,1Longitude=1,2Altitude=1,3Heading=1,4AirSpeed=1,5FrameRate=2,1LockedFrameRate=2,2[DynamicHeadMovement]LonAccelOnHeadLon=-0.020000LonAccelOnHeadPitch=-0.010000RollAccelOnHeadLat=0.010000YawAccelOnHeadLat=-0.100000RollAccelOnHeadRoll=0.100000MaxHeadAngle=5.000000MaxHeadOffset=0.300000HeadMoveTimeConstant=1.000000[VirtualCopilot]VirtualCopilotActive=1[uSERINTERFACE]OpenATCOnCreate=0PageID=1SHOW_MISSION_CAPTIONS=0PAUSE_ON_LOST_FOCUS=1PROMPT_ON_EXIT=1SITUATION=FLIGHTS\OTHER\FLTSIMMap_Orientation=2ShowAllACPaintSchemes=1SelectAircraftManufacturer=AllSelectAircraftPublisher=AllSelectAircraftType=All[Trusted][ATC]ShowATCText=1COMM_MSG_NONE_COLOR=FFFFFFFFCOMM_MSG_ATC_USER_COLOR=FFB6FFB6COMM_MSG_USER_ATC_COLOR=FFFFD21BCOMM_MSG_ATC_AI_COLOR=FF00FF00COMM_MSG_AI_ATC_COLOR=FFFF7840AutoOpenAirTrafficWindow=1UsePilotVoice=1PilotVoice=0[PointOfInterestSystem]CycleSetting=0[sCENERY]LENSFLARE=0DAWN_DUSK_SMOOTHING=1IMAGE_COMPLEXITY=4[TrafficManager]AirlineDensity=60GADensity=30FreewayDensity=20ShipsAndFerriesDensity=20LeisureBoatsDensity=20IFROnly=0AIRPORT_SCENERY_DENSITY=1[TERRAIN]LOD_RADIUS=8.500000MESH_COMPLEXITY=100MESH_RESOLUTION=25TEXTURE_RESOLUTION=29AUTOGEN_DENSITY=4DETAIL_TEXTURE=0WATER_EFFECTS=7[AContain]ShowLabels=0ShowUserLabel=0ShowLabelManufacturer=1ShowLabelModel=1ShowLabelTailNumber=0ShowLabelDistance=1ShowLabelAltitude=1ShowLabelAirline=0ShowLabelAirlineAndFlightNumber=0ShowLabelFlightPlan=0ShowLabelContainerId=0ShowLabelAirspeed=0ShowLabelHeading=0LabelDelay=1000LabelColor=FFFF0000[iNTERNATIONAL]ASLAT=2ASLON=1MEASURE=0[REALISM]PFactor=1.000000Torque=1.000000GyroEffect=1.000000CrashTolerance=1.000000General=1.000000UnlimitedFuel=TrueTrueAirspeed=FalseAutoCoord=FalseRealMixture=FalseStressDamage=FalseGEffect=TrueManualLights=TrueGyroDrift=FalseCrashWithDyn=FalseCrashDetection=FalseAutoTrim=False[sIM]SYSCLOCK=1[sTARTUP]DEMO=0SHOW_OPENING_SCREEN=1STARTUP_DEMO=LoadWindow=1[FACILITIES]COUNTRY=United StatesSTATE=OregonCITY=HillsboroGTL_BUTTON=1273[Misc]Com_Rate=7[RWW_WEATHER_MAP]SHOW_AIRPORTS=0SHOW_VORS=0SHOW_NDBS=0SHOW_APPROACHES=0SHOW_INTERSECTIONS=0SHOW_VICTOR=0SHOW_JET=0SHOW_AIRSPACE=0SHOW_FLIGHTPLAN=1SHOW_WEATHERSTATIONS=1SHOW_WEATHERSYSTEMS=1SHOW_DATATAGS=1SHOW_TERRAIN=1[WeatherMap]SHOW_AIRPORTS=0SHOW_VORS=0SHOW_NDBS=0SHOW_APPROACHES=0SHOW_INTERSECTIONS=0SHOW_VICTOR=0SHOW_JET=0SHOW_AIRSPACE=0SHOW_FLIGHTPLAN=1SHOW_WEATHERSTATIONS=1SHOW_WEATHERSYSTEMS=1SHOW_DATATAGS=1SHOW_TERRAIN=1[bUFFERPOOLS] Poolsize=1000000[MULTIPLAYER]condAccoutPassword=0

Tried SP1/SP2 default of BP=4000000 but Nope, BP=1000000 as default RTM is tops here, terrain stays in place better than BP=0 as mentioned and is smooth as silk.Back to flying...

Shockwave, found this in terrain.dll:[TERRAIN]MIN_DETAIL_TEXTURE_LEVELMAX_DETAIL_TEXTURE_LEVELI don't know what they do, or if they are even useful.. but, since you have a good 'eye' to the blurries, maybe you can see if they make a difference? (regardless of BP value) and Paul, I don't see any 'tearing' with vsync off, at least, I don't see any difference... vsync is 'slightly' smoother, but you REALLY have to be paying attention to notice. vsync off will not make the sim smoother, it will simply take off some load from the video card.