Oh, and in the above post I forgot to include the "microburst-specific link rom NOAA:

What is a Microburst? (weather.gov)

Well @jcomm should like this: 🙂

Although I doubt they'll use all of that data for a very detailed micro-weather simulation. But having the data natively available in the sim is a good starting point for weather add-ons, future improvements, etc.

5 hours ago, Murmur said:

Well @jcomm should like this: 🙂

Although I doubt they'll use all of that data for a very detailed micro-weather simulation. But having the data natively available in the sim is a good starting point for weather add-ons, future improvements, etc.

Ah!  Great !

I haven't yet had the time to watch your Link Murmur - thanks for it !!! But this is how nI have been imagining a true high quality flight simnulator should be built.

In meteorology we can do ( these days ) pretty much everything with a tephigram, either observed or derived from a mathematical weather model, satellite and radar observations.

In condorsoaring a very simplified local weather model is used in the weather interface where yoiu can set the T and Td values and, according to their standard lapse rates, the corresponding graphs are designed. Inversion altitude can also be specified so that "Blue Thermals" can also be simulated. OFC a lot more is involved in a Tephigram like the one Phillip is showing in that image.

Let's keep looking fwd into XP12 and whatever it'll bringh us in the various fronts 🙂

On 7/30/2022 at 7:09 PM, Murmur said:

Well as I said in the past, I consider this specific aspect mostly cosmetic and unrelated to FM realism. The "unrealistic" movement of surfaces with trim even at zero airspeed is necessitated by the limitation of PC flight controls that, in 99% of cases, have no force feedback.

Infact, even in those sims where the surfaces react to airflow during ground roll (XP, DCS), they don't actually react to airflow once in flight (as it should be in a PC flight sim!).

What is important for realism though, is the change in e.g. elevator trimmed position when flaps configuration changes (I think the DCS P51 does that? Or was it the DCS Spitfire?). But that is highly aircraft specific and probably best left to the aircraft designer.

 

So far in any X-plane aircraft I have tested the flaps effect on elevator trim is very evident. Only matched in P3D by A2A. I always compensate with my hand on the yoke as I redial in my trim for flap condition in order to maintain my rate of climb or rate of descent if on final. MAP or torque setting plays in to. I am impressed that in XP one can actually do MAG check authentically as A2A enables to. Now with the A2A aircraft is the custom engine coding. You must beware of your mix operation because plugs can foul. Rather lean, just enough for steady RPM on ground.  Now, lean in flight actually works right by the fuel flow at least. I always lean to just enough for steady RPM based on my altitude and MAP pressure.  It is very much the in the actual Skylane I fly in. But we rarely go more than 50 nm or higher than 5k. 

5 hours ago, Gary1124 said:

So far in any X-plane aircraft I have tested the flaps effect on elevator trim is very evident.

That's correct, but I was referring to a different effect, i.e. the change of the trimmed elevator position caused by the change in airflow due to the different wing downwash when flaps are extended.

That's not modeled in flight sims, but expectedly so because it's very aircraft specific. Also, it's probably only significant for some aircraft and negligible in others.

To my knowledge, only the DCS P51 or DCS Spitfire (don't remember which one) models that.

 

33 minutes ago, Murmur said:

That's correct, but I was referring to a different effect, i.e. the change of the trimmed elevator position caused by the change in airflow due to the different wing downwash when flaps are extended.

That's not modeled in flight sims, but expectedly so because it's very aircraft specific. Also, it's probably only significant for some aircraft and negligible in others.

To my knowledge, only the DCS P51 or DCS Spitfire (don't remember which one) models that.

 

DCS spit as well as on il2

11 minutes ago, jcomm said:

DCS spit as well as on il2

So when you change flaps in IL-2 aircraft, the elevator position changes downward (without moving the controls)? Is it confirmed from external view?

1 hour ago, Murmur said:

So when you change flaps in IL-2 aircraft, the elevator position changes downward (without moving the controls)? Is it confirmed from external view?

Yep, it does indeed, although they haven't yet corrected the trim scale in the cockpit, so, the neutral trim actually corresponds to a bit of tail-heavy.

Other than that, deploying the flaps changes the elevator hinge moment and deflects it, causing the associated pitch down typical of the Spit.

On 8/7/2022 at 6:06 AM, Murmur said:

That's correct, but I was referring to a different effect, i.e. the change of the trimmed elevator position caused by the change in airflow due to the different wing downwash when flaps are extended.

That's not modeled in flight sims, but expectedly so because it's very aircraft specific. Also, it's probably only significant for some aircraft and negligible in others.

To my knowledge, only the DCS P51 or DCS Spitfire (don't remember which one) models that.

 

The flap moment is specifically modeled by A2A. It is really pronounced on the C182 and I can tell you it is accurate. I have never flown a Bonanza or a Commanche. The Bonanza and the Commanche's flap moment effect isn't as strong as the Cessna. But, the Bo isn't very forgiving either. Below 140 knots you must watch the bank angle as the V-stabilators can induce an irrecoverable spin in hard, low speed manuevers. At lower approach speeds one must be gentle in bank and yaw. They were rightly called Doctor Killers. V35s are not for low time pilots.

On 8/1/2022 at 11:20 AM, jcomm said:

Oh, and in the above post I forgot to include the "microburst-specific link rom NOAA:

What is a Microburst? (weather.gov)

It is a phenomanon that can really mess up an otherwise perfect landing.