@Humpty could you get them to try xp11 opengl and vulkan on that laptop and then let us know, then we will have at least some "proof" that you seek:

The intel gpu vulkan/opengl support matrix is here:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000005524/graphics.html

we already got the goodish news that the trees were done on a nvidia gtx1070 (iirc).

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by mSparks

sparks , think you should go back and read your own statements that you made in that thread , but let me point out what you wrote ;

 They are not using Opengl because Intel has not provided Vulkand drivers , at least for GPU's that are 2 years old  , didn't you mention that ?  and i gave you proof that is not the case.

I already had proof but you failed to provide any.

 

6 minutes ago, Humpty said:

sparks , think you should go back and read your own statements that you made in that thread , but let me point out what you wrote ;

 They are not using Opengl because Intel has not provided Vulkand drivers , at least for GPU's that are 2 years old  , didn't you mention that ?  and i gave you proof that is not the case.

I already had proof but you failed to provide any.

 

older than "about" two years old.

all those intel gpus in that link that are dx11/ogl4.3/vulkan na will definately run xp11 and not xp12.

they are still selling older model laptops that sit in that range, they are the more popular ones because they are "cheaper".

question you opened is will it run on vulkan 1.0.66, which I think they wont but you can prove one way or another.

 

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by mSparks

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

older than "about" two years old.

all those intel gpus in that link that are dx11/ogl4.3/vulkan na will definately run xp11 and not xp12.

they are still selling older model laptops that sit in that range, they are the more popular ones because they are "cheaper".

question you opened is will it run on vulkan 1.0.66, which I think they wont but you can prove one way or another.

 

That laptop is almost 4 years old a 6th gen i5.

You said they are running XP11 on opengl . and not vulkan.   If i did misread or misunderstood  then please correct me.

I don't need to prove if it will run XP11 or not , will say it again  I did mention that  you shall also  say that the version might not be capable.

That link only states that what you said that intel has no vulkan is completely wrong. It has nothing to do with it able to run XP or not.

end of disscussion.

 

19 minutes ago, Humpty said:

You said they are running XP11 on opengl . and not vulkan.   If i did misread or misunderstood  then please correct me.

yes, sailing off croatia atm so on mobile, but for example, this one for sale today

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/thomson-neo-15-6-laptop-intel-core-i5-8gb-memory-1tb-hdd-black/6447805.p?skuId=6447805

which has intel 6100 graphics and is dx12, opengl 4.4 and no vulkan support.

That sort of machine is the vast, vast majority of "windows pcs" when people start talking about how windows dominates the market.

And as you saw with your colleagues machine, even if they do have some support it is not current (and may or may not be enough)

 

Lol do you even know what you are posting ?

you are giving me an example of a GPU chip of 2014 , where i gave you a complete list of Intel GPU that are within 4-5 years that have vulkan support, and you showing just one chip LOL.

Go take a flight sparks you seem to be stressed out.

I am out of this discussion and will not repost.

17 minutes ago, mSparks said:

which has intel 6100 graphics and is dx12, opengl 4.4 and no vulkan support.

That sort of machine is the vast, vast majority of "windows pcs" when people start talking about how windows dominates the market.

But who cares honestly if the vast majority of XP12 pilots are not using "the vast majority Windows PCs" but "the simmers average Windows PC" instead?

Sure you are right, there are tons of PC used for gaming or working which might not be offering enough for XP12, and you might be right (it is not the point anyhow to me) that Vulkan on Linux might be more stable, more performant, and more supported than on Windows, nevertheless, I doubt most simmers looking to run XP12 are also considering regularly using it on older specs notebooks. Maybe occasionally, but not regularly?!

At least for what it's worth the latest Navigraph survey is telling 85% of respondents are using an NVidia GPU (might be not representative a population either but I find this closer to our hobby than Steam stats for example), and I'm certain anyone that can run FS2020 on his PC will be able to run XP12 on the same PC as well. Now that the same simmers could run the same XP12 on the same hardware faster and/or better if only they would replace Windows with Linux I don't know, but this is not the main point of the now closed sub-thread in the now closed topic AFAIK.

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by RXP

16 minutes ago, Humpty said:

Lol do you even know what you are posting ?

you are giving me an example of a GPU chip of 2014 , where i gave you a complete list of Intel GPU that are within 4-5 years that have vulkan support, and you showing just one chip LOL.

Go take a flight sparks you seem to be stressed out.

I am out of this discussion and will not repost.

that laptop I just linked was released in 2021, its not as easy as age, yes, some intel chips released 3 or 4 years ago - e.g. the top of the range dell xp13 started in 2017 - have some support.

but people with those machines is a tiny fraction of windows pc users, who buy in the $500-$1000 range which often will run xp11 and not xp12, not the $1000 to $4000 range which will run xp12 if they are less than a couple of years old.

9 minutes ago, RXP said:

But who cares honestly if the vast majority of XP12 pilots are not using "the vast majority Windows PCs"

My comment that kicked off the panic was that LR dont really care about "windows pcs", nor should they. They should and are focusing on mac and linux, with windows support for those that have it.

9 minutes ago, RXP said:

At least for what it's worth the latest Navigraph survey is telling 85% of respondents are using an NVidia GPU

because it works. and works well.

But mobile is the biggest XPlane market (which is entirely dominated by mac and linux). Plus devices like the steam deck are the future of gaming/simming

Well, that or the likes of google stadia, but I have nothing nice to say about that alternative.

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by mSparks

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

But mobile is actually the biggest XPlane market (which is entirely dominated by mac and linux).

And for which therefore if I understand your point about Vulkan this is a no issue isn't it?

33 minutes ago, RXP said:

And for which therefore if I understand your point about Vulkan this is a no issue isn't it?

kinda, I did some vulkan testing on all my mobile devices about 12 months ago. Results were baaaaad.

https://benchmarks.ul.com/news/new-vulkan-benchmark-test-for-android

not tried recently, and hoping my next device gets better results.

But at this moment I think my next console is probably a steam deck assuming I can find one to buy once they release, and they arent plagued by the amd vulkan issues that currently haunt desktop. (xbox plan got canned when it turned out there is no VR support, and Im still not sold on a PS5 -  that looks no good for flight sim anyway, even if it does end up with the best VR offering)

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by mSparks

Perhaps this is already clear but Vulkan 1.1 is required for Xplane 11. 
https://www.x-plane.com/kb/updating-graphics-drivers-for-vulkan-metal/

The question of the required Vulkan version was raised in the other thread and I’m not sure it was ever answered.

 

2 hours ago, Humpty said:

and i gave you proof that is not the case.

As per Randall above, you showed a 4 year old windows pc you had on hand can run xp11, msfs and p3d but not xp12, therefore proved my case, no?

Edited September 14, 20214 yr by mSparks

Vulkan support According to Nvidia : 

https://developer.nvidia.com/vulkan-driver

 

Ampere GPU Architecture

• GeForce RTX: GeForce RTX 3090, GeForce RTX 3080 Ti, GeForce RTX 3080, GeForce RTX 3070 Ti, GeForce RTX 3070, GeForce RTX 3060 Ti, GeForce RTX 3060

Turing GPU Architecture

GPUs starting with the Turing family expose several Vulkan extensions giving developers access to advanced features like ray tracing, mesh shaders, variable rate shading and texture-space shading.

• TITAN: NVIDIA TITAN RTX
• GeForce RTX: GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER, GeForce RTX 2080, GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER, GeForce RTX 2070, GeForce RTX 2060 SUPER, GeForce RTX 2060
• GeForce GTX: GeForce GTX 1660 Ti, GeForce GTX 1660 SUPER, GeForce GTX 1660, GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER, GeForce GTX 1650 Ti, GeForce GTX 1650, GeForce MX250, GeForce MX230
• Quadro: Quadro RTX 8000, Quadro RTX 6000, Quadro RTX 5000, Quadro RTX 4000, Quadro RTX 3000, Quadro T2000, Quadro T1000

Volta GPU Architecture

• TITAN: NVIDIA TITAN V
• Quadro: Quadro GV100

Pascal GPU Architecture

• TITAN: NVIDIA TITAN Xp, NVIDIA TITAN X (Pascal)
• GeForce: GeForce GTX 1080 Ti, GeForce GTX 1080, GeForce GTX 1070 Ti, GeForce GTX 1070, GeForce GTX 1060, GeForce GTX 1050 Ti, GeForce GTX 1050, GeForce GT 1030, GeForce MX150,
• Quadro: Quadro GP100, Quadro P6000, Quadro P5200, Quadro P5000, Quadro P4200, Quadro P4000, Quadro P3200, Quadro P3000, Quadro P2200, Quadro P2000, Quadro P1000, Quadro P620, Quadro P600, Quadro P520, Quadro P500, Quadro P400

Maxwell 2 GPU Architecture

• TITAN: GeForce GTX TITAN X
• GeForce: GeForce GTX 980 Ti, GeForce GTX 980, GeForce GTX 980M, GeForce GTX 970, GeForce GTX 970M, GeForce GTX 965M, GeForce GTX 960, GeForce GTX 950,
• Quadro: Quadro M6000 24GB, Quadro M6000, Quadro M5500, Quadro M5000, Quadro M5000M, Quadro M4000, Quadro M4000M, Quadro M3000M, Quadro M2200, Quadro M2000

Maxwell 1 GPU Architecture

• GeForce: GeForce GTX 960M, GeForce GTX 950M, GeForce 945M, GeForce 940MX, GeForce 930MX, GeForce 920MX, GeForce 940M, GeForce 930M, GeForce GTX 860M, GeForce GTX 850M, GeForce 845M, GeForce 840M, GeForce 830M, GeForce GTX 750 Ti, GeForce GTX 750, GeForce GTX 745, GeForce MX130
• Quadro: Quadro M2000M, Quadro M1000M, Quadro M600M, Quadro M500M, Quadro M1200, Quadro M620, Quadro M520, Quadro K2200M, Quadro K620M

Vulkan support according to AMD : 

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/vulkan

 

• AMD Radeon™ RX 5700 Series
• AMD Radeon™ R9 Series graphics
• AMD Radeon™ R7 Series graphics
• AMD Radeon™ R5 240 graphics
• AMD Radeon™ HD 8000 Series graphics for OEM systems (HD 8570 and up)
• AMD Radeon™ HD 8000M Series graphics for notebooks
• AMD Radeon™ HD 7000 Series graphics (HD 7730 and up
• AMD Radeon™ HD 7000M Series graphics for notebooks (HD 7730M and up)
• AMD A4/A6/A8/A10-7000 Series APUs
• AMD A6/A8/A10 PRO-7000 Series APUs
• AMD A6/A8/A10/FX™ 8000 Series APUs
• AMD E1/A4/A10 Micro-6000 Series APUs
• AMD E1/E2/A4/A6/A8-6000 Series APUs
• AMD A4-1200, A4-1300 and A6-1400 Series APUs
• AMD E1-2000, E2-3000, A4-5000, A6-5000, and A4 Pro-3000 Series APUs

This is the proof not stop your misinformation @msparks . You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. it's one thing to favor linux or XP11 but it's another to just spew pure gibberish content all the time. 

15 minutes ago, mSparks said:

As per Randall above, you showed a 4 year old windows pc you had on hand can run xp11, msfs and p3d but not xp12, therefore proved my case, no?

I only showed you that Intel GPU has Vulkan support 

1 minute ago, fogboundturtle said:

This is the proof not stop your misinformation @msparks

most of the hits I just got looking for windows laptops that arent intel are mostly amd R3s, (although here they dont even sell them them with windows)

e.g.

https://vacom.hr/proizvod/laptop-acer-aspire-3-a314-nx-herex-008-14-amd-8-gb-amd-radeon-r3-256-gb-ssd-freedos-crna/

I dont see R3 in your list?

Now I doubt there any windows PC even now in the $600 range that will run XP12.

steam deck is starting at $400US btw.