It's a software, it will never match the real world 100%

14 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I don't think anyone suggested it was "spot_on"

Well maybe not, but the fact that some keep arguing the matter, only probes my point. If we all accept that it is not perfect and only when quantum computing (as you pointed out) is available then there would be no arguments between us all. If you ask me, even with the so call Quantum technology, I doubt there will ever be a true simulation of mother nature, not as long a humans are part of the equation in the design. Anyway, I will for sure settle for what ever quantum technology brings to the table, "close enough" is fine with me.

Edited June 16, 20214 yr by CarlosF

1 hour ago, CarlosF said:

"close enough" is fine with me.

I actually agree - for the purpose of flight simulation there is a certain granularity of simulating the environment that is good enough.

Who cares if air gets disturbed on a street sign or the sun will bleach the paint of my aircraft in a few years?

If it is of concern to a pilot operating an aircraft (like the venturi effect in a steep valley or wind rotating over a cliff) - yes, please. If it is just for bragging rights "we simulate the air getting disturbed by the wipers"...then sure, nice...but not necessary.

9 minutes ago, Janov said:

Who cares if air gets disturbed on a street sign or the sun will bleach the paint of my aircraft in a few years?

Greazer.

(Please don't give him ideas!!  For the love of everything that is holy!)

21 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

haha ... there will also be arguments, the only variable is the level of "intensity" of those debates.

Indeed, good point!

3 hours ago, Janov said:

(like the venturi effect in a steep valley or wind rotating over a cliff)

That would be nice to have!

Maybe one of the things more sorely lacking in all sims is the modeling of micro-weather: the effect of valleys, mountains etc on wind, turbulence and precipitations.

Not surprisingly, it's probably a complex thing to model though. It would be nice to see it as a primary focus for the future of flight sims.

One of the things that I noticed most when riding in a helicopter, was how much noticeable were the micro-weather phenomena. It's one thing that is poor or missing in flight sims, whereas simmers focus and debate mostly over the macro-weather, big distant clouds, etc.

Edited June 16, 20214 yr by Murmur

On 6/14/2021 at 10:00 AM, Janov said:

On 6/14/2021 at 9:36 AM, GoranM said:

Why would anyone want to experience wind around buildings??

Wellllll - here is one person 🙂

I like to fly helicopters, and the special flows of air around buildings is very important when landing on one 😉

And another use I could see for that is the very special effects you have on certain airports...that are even famous for it, like landing 27R at EGLL with a southerly wind. There are huge BA maintenance hangars south of the threshold and even if the wind is fairly smooth on approach, you do get a good hammering as you get into the wakes of those.

Regarding thermals - I am with Jcomm in that I would love to see better "plausibility" of thermals, i.e. dependent on terrain features (built-up areas, dark asphalt, cool forests, lakes and sea, ...), sun intensity, stable/unstable thermal gradients, etc. 

I think with a little effort this could be improved a lot.

Cheers, Jan

this this this and 1000 times this.

other examples include runways set between trees and various unusual elevations.

I think there may have been some undisclosed updates here sometime over the last few years. Because the effects of mountains used to be terrible if not non existent, but i am pretty sure ive hit up and down drafts crossing mountain ranges in the last few flights.

This is also fairly important for visibility, for example fog covering buildings, clearings between trees and valley fog (which always takes my breath away everytime I see it, always soooo beautiful)

Xplane is a long way from realistic for any of that, not sure we should expect it any time soon though.

8 hours ago, mSparks said:

Xplane is a long way from realistic for any of that, not sure we should expect it any time soon though.

I think some here fly their TBM at FL300 and never think about helis or ultralights near ground level. Hint, yes we do need proper wind current modeling around structures/terrain even down to street sign (ground) level. Thank you!

51 minutes ago, Greazer said:

I think some here fly their TBM at FL300 and never think about helis or ultralights near ground level.

Just in case you're (obviously) referring to me, no...I haven't flown in X-Plane since 2009 for anything other than testing.

52 minutes ago, Greazer said:

Hint, yes we do need proper wind current modeling around structures/terrain even down to street sign (ground) level. Thank you!

Of course, because people are always going to fly heli's as low as 6ft AGL.

 

I think it is important to distinguish between different levels of necessity in features for a flightsimulation. Ranging from "must have" to "would be cool if..."

A highly accurate flow simulation around buildings is "would be cool if..." - we could probably get away something "faking it" and no one would ever know. The actual effect of a building in the wind that a pilot gets is "turbulence" - it could be up, down, sidedraft...the effect of a building is chaotic and safe for some very clear and pronounced effects (like wind pushing over the top in a very small area), the result is unpredictable.

I have flown many times in situations where I expected turbulence - but didn´t get any...and vice versa.

So if LR implemented code that checks for an object within a certain distance (depending on wind strength) and direction from the user´s aircraft and then introduced random turbulence of a corresponding strength...nobody would ever know that it wasn´t some complex flow simulation.

A classic example of "good enough for the purpose".

Was going to respond than decided waste of my life.

10 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

Was going to respond than decided waste of my life.

Yes, it is back to YSSY and it´s many lines and polygons for you! 😁

14 hours ago, Murmur said:

That would be nice to have!

Maybe one of the things more sorely lacking in all sims is the modeling of micro-weather: the effect of valleys, mountains etc on wind, turbulence and precipitations.

Not surprisingly, it's probably a complex thing to model though. It would be nice to see it as a primary focus for the future of flight sims.

One of the things that I noticed most when riding in a helicopter, was how much noticeable were the micro-weather phenomena. It's one thing that is poor or missing in flight sims, whereas simmers focus and debate mostly over the macro-weather, big distant clouds, etc.

I couldn't agree more !

I remember that Flight Unlimited III (1999) had some micro-weather modeling that I have never seen again in any simulator. It accounted for the effect of valleys on wind's direction, thermals, and turbulence inside cumulus clouds was really a thing! Frankly, it was mind blowing at the time and would probably still be!
I don't remember if upwind and downwind around mountains where simulated though.

The fact that it was a defined region probably made modelling these effects easier, maybe with some hard-coding of valleys influence. But I don't see why it would not be possible to implement some local effects in current engines. Of course it would require some serious aerodynamic research, but so does the flight model. And we know that the flight model doesn't take that much processor power, so there is definitely room for this.

And if there is any doubt about the importance of micro-weather effects, we should remember they are nearly always part of the causal chain in accident reports for small aircraft/paragliders.

Thanks Murmur and Janov for bringing up this point!

Pascal

 

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by Pascal_LSGC

3 hours ago, GoranM said:

Of course, because people are always going to fly heli's as low as 6ft AGL.

turbulence from uneven terrain (such as trees) can be felt fairly substantially at 1500agl, there's a chunk of forest turning on right base where I practice that I have to fight with every time the wind is enough to lift the windsock.

Its also not just helos this stuff is important for, all light aircraft are affected by such wind.

some even rely on it:

 

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by mSparks

Vehicle Simulator used to have some nice effects for hang gliding / para gliding...

 

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by jcomm