12 minutes ago, n4gix said:

Asobo has added a ton of truly useful control adjustments to the sim; far beyond an flight sim has ever had. That's why everyone will need to customize the response curves of the hardware before tackling the other problems - and yes there are problems - with the OTB flight dynamics.

It is my opinion that the problems with the current flight models have much less to do with how the planes fly with regards to sensitivity (or instability as some may see it) and much more to do with inaccurate weight and balance and thrust performance (climb rate primarily, the 747 is a good example of this when it is flown at gross weight

7 minutes ago, robert young said:

 There are inherent aircraft movements themselves, and nothing to do with control input, that don't look right to me.

Can you please provide some timestamps as I said earlier so we can all compare the same example(s) instead of talking so esoterically?

Edited August 15, 20205 yr by High_Alpha

Coming in this thread I didn’t expect yet another discussion about flight dynamics, let alone another disagreement with Rob!

But to provide said balance, unlike Rob I am currently rated on SEP, MEP, aerobatics, type rated on 787/777 with ATPL, and there’s nothing wrong with this flight model barring being over-sensitive. 

And if you stamp full rudder in pretty much any aircraft (jet included) you’ll be in a mess in no time. 

 

Edited August 15, 20205 yr by 2reds2whites

@robert young Maybe you can record a video of you flying your favorite 172 in your sim of choice and showing your control movements to show us what you think it should look like.

1 minute ago, High_Alpha said:

Can you please provide some timestamps as I said earlier so we can all compare the same example instead of talking so esoterically?

Not sure what you mean by time stamps. I've given numerous real world versus sim examples of similar aircraft throughout this thread. Some people seek to invalidate these comparisons because they are videos. But there are aspects of them that are perfectly valid for comparison, especially when you can see 1) the airspeed 2) the attitude indicator 3) the control inputs 4) the power settings and 5) the aircraft response.

Off topic just a tad?

I thought I was going to learn something here about Spad which might clue me in to my questions regarding the use of my radio panel with the new sim, but instead we're talking about trees again?

Edited August 15, 20205 yr by hangar

Just now, Slides said:

@robert young Maybe you can record a video of you flying your favorite 172 in your sim of choice and showing your control movements to show us what you think it should look like.

I'd be delighted except that I've recently obliterated all my sims to make space for - you've guessed it!

Just now, hangar said:

Off topic just a tad?

I thought I was going to learn something here about Spad which might clue me in to my questions regarding the use of my radio panel with the new sim, but instead we're talking about trees again?

Apologies Hanger. I didn't expect this thread to escalate. You're quite right.

Thanks.

Edited August 15, 20205 yr by RALF9636

5 minutes ago, 2reds2whites said:

I am currently rated on SEP, MEP, aerobatics, type rated on 787/777 with ATPL, and there’s nothing wrong with this flight model barring being over-sensitive. 

Yeah, unless proven otherwise, comments like this plus my own eyes and years of flight sims reassure me that Asobo got most of the GA FM right though I'm sure their will be mostly minor tweaks needed in the coming months. I can't speak for the airliners.

Other experienced pilots have echoed the same sentiments.

10 minutes ago, 2reds2whites said:

Coming in this thread I didn’t expect yet another discussion about flight dynamics, let alone another disagreement with Rob!

But to provide said balance, unlike Rob I am currently rated on SEP, MEP, aerobatics, type rated on 787/777 with ATPL, and there’s nothing wrong with this flight model barring being over-sensitive. 

And if you stamp full rudder in pretty much any aircraft (jet included) you’ll be in a mess in no time. 

 

I did an aerobatics rating in 1978. But I bow to your experience in all other matters, except that being "over-sensitive" is a major flaw in my book, and by that I mean over-sensitive in inertia well as all the other over-sensitivities. As you are here, can you please confirm that a 787-10 routinely rotates from first pull of the yoke to main gear unstick in roughly 4 seconds, using typical procedures with MTOW or near enough?

5 minutes ago, robert young said:

I did an aerobatics rating in 1978. But I bow to your experience in all other matters, except that being "over-sensitive" is a major flaw in my book, and by that I mean over-sensitive in inertia well as all the other over-sensitivities.

Are you implying you think the aeroplane moves around too much due to environmental factors? Or is your criticism solely based on the aeroplane's control surfaces causing more moment inertia than is realistically expected for their size?

Edited August 15, 20205 yr by High_Alpha

Why is this another discussion about flight models? I was expecting to read something about SPAD.next.

Because Bill is off smoking in the boys bathroom again?

Yeah, sorry about that... I couldn't let it go unnoticed... 😬

I'll let those interested in the intended topic get it back on the rails (pun intended) now.

Edited August 15, 20205 yr by High_Alpha

29 minutes ago, robert young said:

I did an aerobatics rating in 1978. But I bow to your experience in all other matters, except that being "over-sensitive" is a major flaw in my book, and by that I mean over-sensitive in inertia well as all the other over-sensitivities. As you are here, can you please confirm that a 787-10 routinely rotates from first pull of the yoke to main gear unstick in roughly 4 seconds, using typical procedures with MTOW or near enough?

Don’t bow to my experience, I don’t like quoting it (despite seeming to do so frequently), but it seems required in search of legitimacy. 

As for the 787-10, rotation rates quoted by FCOM are 2-2.5 degrees per second. Liftoff is between 3-4 seconds. 

Edit: Assuming V speeds, trim, flap, power, engine rating are accurate. 

Edited August 15, 20205 yr by 2reds2whites