On 8/8/2019 at 4:37 PM, Noooch said:

Actually, Google Maps has got ALL cities covered by photogrametry in Europe, even in Eastern Europe, at least where I checked.

I know MS and Google are competitors but in a perfect world, MS would buy that data to make us happy and let us have the best sim ever!

worst case they could get pretty close using shadow length if they were so inclined.

one way or another it will of course improve over time, just as all the other simulators have and will.

I remember not too long ago when I actually thought fsx scenery was acceptable.

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by mSparks

28 minutes ago, mSparks said:

worst case they could get pretty close using shadow length if they were so inclined.

one way or another it will of course improve over time, just as all the other simulators have and will.

I remember not too long ago when I actually thought fsx scenery was acceptable.

MS and Google are getting closer in other fields but I doubt they will aquire any map data 2D or 3D for MSFS. I could be wrong.

Yes, for the procedural world (no photogrammetry available), the shadow length is one factor to estimate the height of an infrasrtucture in relation to the metadata of the time/season the satellite/aerial photo was taken. Some error margins would probably occur when some antenas on the building extend the shadows or a building in the shadow of another.

For Photogrammetry, the height is pretty accurate and could be translated to procedural format as is, in my opinion.

2 hours ago, Claviateur said:

but I doubt they will aquire any map data 2D or 3D for MSFS.

They dont need to acquire anything, bing already has global lvl19 map data.

But since most of it is under licence with the DoD and Google its not clear if they can actually use it.

google has exclusive commercial rights over

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoEye-1

for example.

and it does look like the US fell behind because of

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldView-4

How big is MSFT in China now? They could acquire Gaofen data. That is purported to have 3d data in high res for the whole world. US did just throw AI tools suitable to analyse it on the banned weapons list, but that is definitely a case of closing the stable door a decade after the horse has bolted.

Even their free data looks quite attractive tbh.

Personally I'm pretty happy with lvl16 and a bit of post processing for bathymetry and decals, nice balance between performance filesize and looks.

e.g.

 

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by mSparks

Thank you for your comments.

2 hours ago, RALF9636 said:

I also noticed a seemingly relative low mesh resolution in many of their videos and images. To me that stood out from the beginning, the mesh resolution is a little disappointing compared to all other aspects of the scenery so far.

Now that you mention it, you’re right, there were other images that indicated low mesh resolution (e.g. the first grass shot or 12 December update).

2 hours ago, Claviateur said:

I suppose the dynamic snow is just a first implementation and I suppose the snow coverage will be eventually refined and improved (ex: based on altitude, temperature, region, season and weather forecast).

I agree, the snow appears to amplify the effect as it completely covers the ortho imagery atm. I’m aware that this is work in progress and I'm also sure they’ll improve this.

Regarding mesh, would it be hard to fix it, i.e. implement higher resolution mesh?

11 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

 

Regarding mesh, would it be hard to fix it, i.e. implement higher resolution mesh?

Implementing a different data for elevation should be a straight forward task for any owners and developers of a World Engine (i.e: Asobo). Now will they do this or not, I do not know.

Back in FSX, we, as users, could compile out of a DEM data file, using FS/ESP SDK commands, custom elevations for a sector, country, region etc..

In another simulator we must not name here, as shown in the previous post above, users can generate Orthophoto using a 3rd party app and while doing so, they can couple the Ortho tiles with custom elevation data if they have high res DEM data, or, they select a server among those available in the app, to fetch elevation data (usually better than default).

So if in FSX and in that other simulator users could/can do this, Asobo can certainly and easily plug any elevation data in their engine. Of course, if they + MS decide to do so.

Let's not forget that MSFS will allow streaming live terrain data of multiple layers. Higher terrain resolution can affect the LOD behavior (the terrain mesh morphs to become more and more defined as we get closer). And this can be a bit unrealistic...

 

That could just be the LOD making it look lower quality.

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by Tuskin38

13 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

That could just be the LOD making it look lower quality.

Yes, and I hope the new engine is not like ESP. In fact ESP terrain architecture is designed in a way that was flexible to manipulate and modify but not the best for performance and LOD behavior... Unlike the terrain of another simulator. Let's see how Asobo's engine handles this. I hope we will not see the terrain morph from low res drapery, to more defined one as we get closer 😕 

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by Claviateur

Thanks for the explanation.

19 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

In another simulator we must not name here, as shown in the previous post above, users can generate Orthophoto using a 3rd party app and while doing so, they can couple the Ortho tiles with custom elevation data if they have high res DEM data, or, they select a server among those available in the app, to fetch elevation data (usually better than default)

I used that program as well with hd mesh, I just never really understood (or cared to understand) the technology behind it.

A big problem with mesh in P3D is the mesh popping when the LOD levels shift as you approach the terrain - which I find is an immersion killer. It gets worse the higher the mesh resolution is. That's why I finally uninstalled the Pilot's Global high resolution mesh (where the mesh popping was most disturbing) and returned to the default mesh.

Some mesh popping could be seen in one of the earlier videos of MSFS also and I assume Asobo wants to do without such mesh and texture popping (at least I hope so!) and that is still work in progress. So that might be a reason for the relative low mesh resolution so far (to avoid obvious mesh popping).

 

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by RALF9636

10 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

Thanks for the explanation.

I used that program as well with hd mesh, I just never really understood (or cared to understand) the technology behind it.

It follows the architecture/SDK of that sim engine and compiles all terrain components in one single file. 

1 minute ago, RALF9636 said:

A big problem with mesh in P3D is the mesh popping when the LOD levels shift as you approach the terrain - which I find is an immersion killer. It gets worse the higher the mesh resolution is. That's why I finally uninstalled the Pilot's Global high resolution mesh (where the mesh popping was most disturbing) and returned to the default mesh.

Some mesh popping could be seen in one of the earlier videos of MSFS and I assume Asobo wants to do without such mesh and texture popping (at least I hope so!). So that might be a reason for the relative low mesh resolution so far (to avoid obvious mesh popping).

 

Yes exactly, and this is because of ESP terrain architecture and the way it loads and displays terrain components. And I hope, really hope, this won't be the case of Asobo's engine. I experienced more life like terrain behavior no matter how high res the mesh is and I am no more used to this drapery animation 🙂

 

5 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

Yes exactly, and this is because of ESP terrain architecture and the way it loads and displays terrain components. And I hope, really hope, this won't be the case of Asobo's engine. I experienced more life like terrain behavior no matter how high res the mesh is and I am no more used to this drapery animation 🙂

 

Indeed. I don't want to see any popping mesh or textures in MSFS. It would be a major disappointment. It's one of the worst features of P3D.

Just now, RALF9636 said:

Indeed. I don't want to see any popping mesh or textures in MSFS. It would be a major disappointment. It's one of the worst features of P3D.

I hope not. Asobo's videos did not show, as far as my eyes could see, any terrain LOD refreshing except for the Photogrammetry cities?

1 hour ago, Shack95 said:

Regarding mesh, would it be hard to fix it, i.e. implement higher resolution mesh?

I imagine it would depend on the impact it could have on streaming, since more data means higher bandwidth requirements and/or larger disk cache space. Maybe there could be an option for higher terrain mesh resolution if you have the bandwidth to support it, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach with a lower resolution mesh.

Anyway, we don't know yet what the final terrain mesh resolution will be. 

1 minute ago, Paraffin said:

I imagine it would depend on the impact it could have on streaming, since more data means higher bandwidth requirements and/or larger disk cache space. Maybe there could be an option for higher terrain mesh resolution if you have the bandwidth to support it, rather than a one-size-fits-all approach with a lower resolution mesh.

Anyway, we don't know yet what the final terrain mesh resolution will be. 

Yes and maybe high res 3rd party custom terrain will be local only.