...considering the FMC is not complete, then I don't see how the current asking price could approach being reasonable. I'm not saying i'm right - just my thoughts.

I don't actually know if any FMC is really complete in any pay-ware. You always have ACARS and stuff like that not working. Ariane should be releasing on of the most complete FMCs available in the near future with the new Nav Data Manager. I'm anxious to see it. I've heard a lot about it.Bob

Bob did you get my PM? :(

David a lot of this stuff has either already been changed, or was just a false rumor.

I really believe that the product is mature today and is worth the price.The problem I still have with Ariane is that you have to pay for:-repaints (OK, PSS was selling them but so cheaper!!)

This is true, but I think people take the freebies for granted and feel all developers are obligated to give their stuff away. This is a perk with some aircraft, but Ariane puts a lot more than a repaint into a livery package. They actually match the engine thrust rating (and some other stuff covered on the website) that came with that livery. On some they even match the cockpit seat covering to the livery.

-printing manuals (sorry but the "piracy" explanation doesn't make sense to me.)

I'm pretty sure that you can print the manuals for the X2. I haven't tried because I bought the printed/bound manuals. But I was told that you can print the manuals now. They actually did have someone try to sell their manuals from the .pdf file.

-upgrades (it's too easy to say that every improvement is a "new" product)

Ariane does provide patches and service packs for free. But remember that 737s are all that Ariane makes. Any plane that they release in the future will still, more than likely, be a 737. All 737s look the same so it is easy to say the you deserve to have all future products from Ariane for free, but that would not be realistic.

-

Sorry Bob but I have deleted my post by mistake instead of editing it.Thanks for your answers.Now, I am really troubled.How can you say that you are just a "customer" when you seem to know who is and who isn't member of Ariane's forums, when you hear about future products that are not yet described in their website, when you seem to know the developers, when you can affirm which service is free and which is subject to charges despite what is noticed in their website, when a single email from you can solve problems of product activation, when you know what are their plans towards customers??Sorry but there is something very disturbing here.I can believe you when you say that you are not part of the payroll.But I begin having serious doubts about your link with this company and hence about the credibility of your testimonial here.There is NO problem to defend a product you love.But that could be a problem if your fairness is at stake.You are claiming facts that a simple "customer" doesn't know, even if he is the best fan of a product.I know that you have already answered to this question but the addition of signs is now seriously troubling me.

I believe the review should be focused on the product itself and not on how someone would like to see them run their business.

Yup, me too, in fact any product review should do that. My comments about things on this thread should not be construed as how I'll tackle reviewing the thing, I'm just interested in taking part in this discussion, as it's quite an interesting thread. My own opinion about whether I think getting another paint job in the product is a good/bad idea is really neither here nor there as far as a review is concerned. It is what it is. People can decide for themselves based on having the facts presented to them whether they'd share my own opinion or not.As simple as that sounds, it's probably going to be quite hard work this one, because I'll really need to look at every aspect of the thing. I'm well aware that people have a lot of questions (as do I) and there are many very knowledgable simmers out there with regard to the good old 737, so they deserve an intelligent appraisal of the thing, rather than me on a soapbox.What that boils down to is that I'm going to try and address all of the many questions people do, or might conceivably have, but do that by focusing on the product in fairly considerable detail and leave any opining about stuff for this thread. Remember, the whole reason I decided to do this in the first place, and also the reason the Avsim reviews editor approved of me doing so, was for the purpose of getting to the the truth about things, and not to perpetuate myths and opinions. So it would be somewhat hypocritical to then use a review as a platform for me to do that sort of thing myself. Al

David, respectfully, I have been an Ariane customer for the last two years. I am an Ariane customer now. I needed support on the first product that I bought from them and it took about two weeks of emailing back and forth to fix my problem. After that I just continued to email them every now and then and they always answer my emails and still do.I'm glad that you can believe me when I say that I'm not on their payroll. On the other hand, what "link" to this company do you think I have? I pay full price for everything that I get from them. I have never met the people from Ariane, I have never been to the UK in my life, I'm not related to them, I'm not married into their family, I'll get no inheritance from them when they pass away....I am at a loss to try to figure out what kind of mysterious relationship other than as a customer, you are imagining that I could possibly have with these people.I'll get on the customer forums and help people the same way that I would do here. So do other Ariane customers. That is why they call it a "customer" forum. It is customers helping customers. When other customers can't answer the problems they receive the one-on-one free email support that is available to all customers.You say that you know the information that I have cannot be accessed from the Ariane customer forums or the website, but since you do not have any access to the customer forums, I will link where this informations is readily available to anyone interested on the website. Because you still may miss the information there, I will also quote it here:

A new ticketing system has been created for users who would like to chat or discuss an issue or ask a question regarding our products and their operation by dropping us and email. Some customers prefer this method rather than reading a manual, searching on an FAQ page or asking questions or discussing issues on a support forum:

Below is the direct link:Ariane One-on-One tutoring

How can you say that you are just a "customer" when you seem to know who is and who isn't member of Ariane's forums,

I check the customer forums periodically.

You are claiming facts that a simple "customer" doesn't know, even if he is the best fan of a product.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. I get email all of the time from Aerosoft Germany, telling me to check the forums for a new product that they are releasing or an update to a product they have. They know that if I see something that I like, I'm going to buy it so they always let me know. Also I check Aerosoft's forum regularly, yet I have no mysterious ties with them.Ariane is no different. If they are about to release a new product, update an existing one, or improve a policy, they will email me and let me know because they know that if I'm interested, I will buy the new product. It's just good business on their part.I have been a good customer for Ariane for the last two years. What makes me a good customer is that I buy everything that they make. I love their products and I'm not hesitant to make anyone that would spread malicious lies, gossip, or false rumors about one of my favorite developers with the intention of ruining their existence so I cannot purchase their products anymore, substantiate those statements with fact (which they usually can't do).David, I'm amazed because you of all people should understand this more than anyone. How long has Israel fought ferociously for its inalienable right to exist? How many good people have died for that cause? How many people would like to see it taken away from them?I'm not trying to belittle the great cause of Israel in any way (God forbid!), but in a much, much smaller, much less significant, yet similar way, I feel that Ariane Designs has a "right" to exist. I feel their "right" to exist is in jeopardy and since they are one of my favorite developers, I will intercede for them and help in that cause whenever I can and with what little I can.My knowledge of Ariane is accumulated knowledge from being a good customer of theirs for the past two years and nothing more.Bob

Just been flying this bird around at night (in FSX), and I have to say that the panel night lighting is amazing. The PMDG MD11 has the advantage of development beyond the time when I purchased and downloaded this (Dec 2007), so nothing like the variable dimming of panel lights- but the intensity and subtle glows of a colored light onto adjacent panel area is something that I have not seen before- and I'm not sure what the current stuff has, I assume it's better still. I must learn how to capture a shot and post it here- maybe tomorrow if I get time.The sounds are very immersive, I don't think I have seen this many sounds and this level of immersion from sounds in anything, except maybe the PMDG MD11.On the other side, I find that when in FLCH, that the attitude of the aircraft in descent hunts up and down to try and capture the desired speed. Also noted that I can not seem to directly enter into the FMC, I need to Shift-2 to bring up a pop-up to do that. Some of this may be features that I have yet to learn.One thing I would like is printable manuals- the .pdf files that I have (and this may be different with the current product) are not printable (although I can "save a copy").Lots to learn- but a nice product so far.Bruce.

Just been flying this bird around at night (in FSX), and I have to say that the panel night lighting is amazing. The PMDG MD11 has the advantage of development beyond the time when I purchased and downloaded this (Dec 2007), so nothing like the variable dimming of panel lights- but the intensity and subtle glows of a colored light onto adjacent panel area is something that I have not seen before- and I'm not sure what the current stuff has, I assume it's better still. I must learn how to capture a shot and post it here- maybe tomorrow if I get time.The sounds are very immersive, I don't think I have seen this many sounds and this level of immersion from sounds in anything, except maybe the PMDG MD11.On the other side, I find that when in FLCH, that the attitude of the aircraft in descent hunts up and down to try and capture the desired speed. Also noted that I can not seem to directly enter into the FMC, I need to Shift-2 to bring up a pop-up to do that. Some of this may be features that I have yet to learn.One thing I would like is printable manuals- the .pdf files that I have (and this may be different with the current product) are not printable (although I can "save a copy").Lots to learn- but a nice product so far.Bruce.

I've mentioned to them about click spots on the FMC like there is on all of the FS9 products. The way that I get around this is to use FSUIPC to program my buttons on the yoke, etc and just program a button on the yoke to do the Shift+2 to bring up the FMC.I will check to see if I can print the manual (I'll try a page). I have the printed and bound manuals now so I've never tried to print the .pdf file. I believe they can be printed with the X2.I wanted to mention something about the FS9 versions of the Ariane Boeing 737s. I think there was mentioned somewhere that the gauge refresh rate was slow on the FS9 models, and that is true, but each display (including the FMS, MCP and IRS) has a popup click spot that will bring up a 2d popup of that gauge. The 2d popups are as smooth as the real aircraft. Because I hadn't used them in so long, I had forgot about the 2d popups and that is what you would be using for takeoff and manual landings. They are really smooth. I had every FS9 version except the 737-800, so I just went ahead and bought it because it is the one that they have all of the McPhat liveries released for now.I'm flying this -800 for FS9 right now and, although the panel textures is not as quite as nice as the FSX versions, it is really an awesome 737 that flies great too. Really they're the ones that sold me on Ariane originally.I'll be flying these FS9 versions a lot more again.It had been so long since I flew the FS9 versions, I forgot how great they flew.I apologize for getting off topic, but I just wanted to say that for who ever was asking about it.Bob

Bob,1) Thanks very much for your explanation, I really didn't know what "customer service" was and thanks to you I feel now more clever.2) Please stop your demagogy with me (Israel). If you feel that Ariane Design is in danger, I'll remind you that once (not too long ago) they wrote: "Ariane has sold tens of thousands of its 737 VCe Series to many professional people who fly at the cutting edge with us including over 200 real-world Ng pilots who use our work to keep themselves current." I am an ElAl pilot and I received my 737 certification in 1985. I've met thousands of airline pilots in my life and if I tell them about what Ariane claims they will be laughing for weeks. This is pure BS for naive people.3) Stop spreading false infomation, this is no longer acceptable. Among them, you perfectly know that the X2 manual is NOT printable. Period. You perfectly know that they are charging some

Just tried to print the X2 manual a moment ago and the option is greyed out. With a lot of faffing about you can actually get around that, however, by default they are none printable it seems.Re the FS9 Ariane 737, I'll add that although I've only had a play around with a friend's FS9 Ariane 737 a few times as opposed to actually buying one myself, I did like the way it flew and the virtual cockpit was particularly what struck me as impressive when I first saw it. Obviously not owning it I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but from what I saw, I liked it a lot and if the FSX one turns out to be up my street, I think I'd consider buying the FS9 one, because I still fly FS9 a lot, especially when it comes to airliners.Al

5) In the long Ariane's FS history they've always used the same strategy: hazy information in their website and a lot of attempts in different forums with misinformation in order to maintain confusion. Why should it change suddenly and why should I believe in their new virginity?well now we see what one is up againstSeveral people have already mentioned making a leap of faith and ignoring the misinformation coming from your side.Open your mind man.john

David, respectfully,....David, I'm amazed because you of all people should understand this more than anyone. How long has Israel fought ferociously for its inalienable right to exist? How many good people have died for that cause? How many people would like to see it taken away from them?I'm not trying to belittle the great cause of Israel in any way (God forbid!), but in a much, much smaller, much less significant, yet similar way, I feel that Ariane Designs has a "right" to exist. I feel their "right" to exist is in jeopardy and since they are one of my favorite developers, I will intercede for them and help in that cause whenever I can and with what little I can.

Bob,This is just too much. Your'e getting way out of line. This is not the way to go if you really respect somebody.

5) In the long Ariane's FS history they've always used the same strategy: hazy information in their website and a lot of attempts in different forums with misinformation in order to maintain confusion. Why should it change suddenly and why should I believe in their new virginity?well now we see what one is up againstSeveral people have already mentioned making a leap of faith and ignoring the misinformation coming from your side.Open your mind man.john

LOL!Misinformation coming from "my" side??That's the joke of the year!!! :(Now seriously, my warning to Bob is a serious warning from Avsim.Please keep your comments for yourself.Thx

Just tried to print the X2 manual a moment ago and the option is greyed out. With a lot of faffing about you can actually get around that, however, by default they are none printable it seems.Re the FS9 Ariane 737, I'll add that although I've only had a play around with a friend's FS9 Ariane 737 a few times as opposed to actually buying one myself, I did like the way it flew and the virtual cockpit was particularly what struck me as impressive when I first saw it. Obviously not owning it I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but from what I saw, I liked it a lot and if the FSX one turns out to be up my street, I think I'd consider buying the FS9 one, because I still fly FS9 a lot, especially when it comes to airliners.Al

I am also motivated to get the fs9 version but will probably wait for the FMC/navdata updates.at least one feature available for fs9 is not in the FSX X2 series, that is the change of PFD format from/to the condensed old analogue type format. I like this feature so was temped to fs9 for this, but then I suppose the fs9 wouldn't have as rich lighting effects. always a trade-off.recall someone printed the manual as screenshots, possible but not ideal obvously. Once you get going you don't have to refer to manual at all really.john

LOL!Misinformation coming from "my" side??That's the joke of the year!!! :(Now seriously, my warning to Bob is a serious warning from Avsim.Please keep your comments for yourself.Thx

then perhaps you should discuss in private with Bob,to tell someone to keep their comments to themselves ? ye what ? this is a forum dude, it wouldn't exist if people kept their comments to themselves. "warning" ????john