Of late, Froogle has seemed to be primarily focused on favoring more a DCS and XP camp. This new MSFS is a possible direct threat to both of them.

If this new MSFS looks like that hanger in the trailer, and has all the features (within reason) we have required and wanted, XP and DCS simply will not be able to cope (my theory/view).  

MS could easily take the crown anytime if they wish. All they have to do is follow that same FS1-FSX (most profitable in flight simming) business model ("as real as it gets"), with a fantastic SDK provided.

FSX still blows DCS and XP out of the water easy (popularity wise) - the only reason P3D does not blow FSX out of the water is that word 'license' <----almost as bad as that curse we know/knew as OOM 🤬 🤮

I wonder if Froogle has some kind of business agreement with DCS and/or XP that is threatened, because if he thinks DCS and XP even combined are more established in the flight sim market than even PMDG, that is a laugh. There is no other logical reason I can think of, that could bring such hostility against MSFS with so few facts.

Froogle did not think before talking... this is certain. I look forward to any doubling down on his part.🧐

 

meh, how do i eject from this thread notification?

28 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

I agree with this.  What a fun topic this would be in the open forum here.  Who stands to lose more? DCS, XP or P3D? That could get out of hand fast!  But my conjecture leans toward XP being the biggest potential loser out the gate.  Like it could nose dive their sales overnight (Opinion!).  The PMDG 737, 777, and 747 plus the FSLABS A320 are just a "hardcore" simmers wet dream for airplane "sim" systems as we know it.  As much as I am critical of the add-on system I do believe these 4 products are pretty impressive.  I love A2A birds but there was still nothing like the first time I successfully Cold and Dark started the 737 and completed a flight.  It was just awesome for an aviation enthusiast who has always looked at the cockpit with wanderlust.  I think that will take time to translate to any new modern sim even with a glorious SDK but the lighter, smaller aircraft are simpler and will come much faster.  If the default A320 is Zibo equivalent, XP could be on the ropes.  Plus we are more likely to see a Zibo equivalent 737 before a PMDG 737 drops or another developer seizes the opportunity.  Also, the big cockpit builders are 737 prosim guys and I can't imagine that will move to MSFS in the first year.  I don't know, it's opinion but I think the complex big boys are going to take half a decade to make the switch and maybe longer for choices.  That will mean P3D hold outs will be more inclined to hold out.  Plus, I definitely feel like there is a strong following of FSX/P3D users that will give that sim up when you pry it from their cold dead hands 🙂 I say that with admiration that they are passionate, but the XP11 base (again opinion) seems more open to whatever looks good and is good enough.

Funnily enough I see x plane as the least potentially affected. They have always plowed their own furrow, seemingly ambivalent to the wants and needs of anyone else. I predict that their flight model will still offer something different, which p3d won’t. DCS I think will be fine too because it caters for a specific subsection of the scene. if anything they could benefit from more general exposure of flight simulation. 

P3d will be the big loser I think, and anyone who solely relies on it. I think the chickens will come home to roost for all of those people who have pretended to be students for the last few years so they didn’t have to pay full whack for it. I could be biased though because that has always completely annoyed me for some reason!

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by Superdelphinus

6 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

  Plus, I definitely feel like there is a strong following of FSX/P3D users that will give that sim up when you pry it from their cold dead hands 🙂 I say that with admiration that they are passionate, but the XP11 base (again opinion) seems more open to whatever looks good and is good enough.

The problem for many FSX(P3D Developers are their own costs. X.Plane and many of its developers can pretty fast downsize if necessary.and in the long run I don't see heavy ambitions by Microsoft for the very small 3rd party market. But how do FSLabs, PMDG and A2A downsize. In the X-Plane market many teams are still simple cooperations of smaller developers.

The short to medium future for P3D is fine IMHO.  It aint going anywhere.

The bubble headed blonde (Im thinking) coming from MS is unlikely to compete.

6 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

I agree with this.  What a fun topic this would be in the open forum here.  Who stands to lose more? DCS, XP or P3D? That could get out of hand fast!  But my conjecture leans toward XP being the biggest potential loser out the gate.  Like it could nose dive their sales overnight (Opinion!). 

Laminar wouldn't care. I repeat -- X-Plane is Austin's pet project and we're just along for the ride.

It isn't going anywhere, at least not the platform itself. It's the basis for the FAA licensed Pro version, the basis of aerospace contract work, and the basis of the mobile version. Austin would keep the gang working on it, if it only sold 10 copies a year to the home PC users.

If MSFS ends up exceeding the capability or eye candy of XP, then the threat would be that we'd lose some 3rd party developers to the new platform. That would only happen if they have the SDK to work with, and if the economics were attractive. None of this is known yet. But yeah, that might be a risk.

 

Quote

the XP11 base (again opinion) seems more open to whatever looks good and is good enough.

The XP11 base also enjoys all those free 3D airports in the Gateway, and the open file architecture that lets us drag and drop aircraft and scenery installations. Or drag the whole installation to a different drive without running through hoops (except for a few DRM'd add-ons). Depending on how closed vs. open the new MSFS is, some might prefer the XP11 open file structure approach. 

One other thing -- 35% of XP11 users are on a Mac, not a Windows PC. Their only option would be the console version of the new MSFS. That might be a barrier to switching, if I know my Mac users. 

7 hours ago, Wise87 said:

He’s on twitter harping about why he can't express any opinion without a few hundred people screaming. Well when you release a opinion video and don’t even have your facts correct, than what do you expect. It was known on day one it was releasing for PC. I'm all for someone giving their opinion but at least get the basic facts correct. He had two weeks to know it was coming out for PC first which is why he got such a backlash from viewers.   

Froogle's video reminds me of people who go on Amazon and write scathing reviews of books they don't own and have never read, simply because they don't like the subject matter of a particular book. Froogle didn't like the subject matter: a new sim. His video wouldn't have been so off-putting if it had contained some actual content, detailing the specifics of his distaste for MSFS 2020. But of course he couldn't provide any substantive commentary because he hasn't used the product. Still, he provided a harsh rebuke of the new sim. He couldn't even bring himself to praise the stunningly beautiful graphics within the MS demo. Talk about sour grapes! Hillary Clinton had a better attitude about Trump's victory than Froogle has about MSFS 2020.

Perhaps some of you who understand computers better than I do can utilize the "Wayback Machine" site and retrieve Froogle's video for everyone to see, since I'm sure he'll try to recast and spin what he said and claim he's been misrepresented and lied about. It was visible at 7:30PM ET on June 19th.

Edit: I see that Froogle removed the video in question, but will be re-uploading after removing an error in which he referenced that the sim would only be available on XBox.

Froogle is as entitled to his opinion as any of the rest of us, and I haven't seen the video, but it sounds like he's just being a grumpy old man.  I have thousands invested in FSX/P3D but I have been dreaming for decades of a sim with the features MS showed off in the recent trailer and will gladly leave the remnants of the past behind.  If you want to be stuck in the past it's your choice.  I'll move forward with the reborn MSFS.

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by TechguyMaxC

2 minutes ago, TechguyMaxC said:

Where is the video this thread references?

He pulled it.

Poor ole Froogle. His hide sure has been barbaqued here today.🔥

24 minutes ago, PATCO LCH said:

Poor ole Froogle. His hide sure has been barbaqued here today.🔥

"He who lives by posting flight sim videos shall perish by posting flight sim videos" -- Matthew 26:52, King James Version.

 

21 hours ago, David Mills said:

Like many of you, I'm a big fan and follower of Froogle on YouTube. I always look forward to his wonderful weekly updates about flight sim news and add-ons.

About 7:30PM ET today (Wednesday, June 19th), I got notification that Froogle had just uploaded a new video about the just-announced Microsoft Flight Simulator for next year. I immediately dropped what I was doing and eagerly watched Froogle's new video. I was stunned at what I saw and heard. First of all, Froogle's video was titled "Microsoft Flight Sim 2020 -- Who Cares!" At first I thought that the name of the video might be facetious, just to make sure people clicked on the link. But no, the video was an inexplicably embittered, sulking, hyper-critical scolding of Microsoft for creating its new sim. The 12-minute video literally said NOTHING positive or encouraging or hopeful about the new MSFS, nothing. It was almost as if Froogle's self-esteem or sense of usefulness within the flight sim community had been shattered by Microsoft's announcement, an announcement which most of us found very exciting indeed.

After I watched Froogle's video, I spent the next 20 or 25 minutes eating dinner, after which I returned to the computer to watch the video again, thinking I'd perhaps misinterpreted his distraught emotional state. But by the time I returned, Froogle had deleted his "Who Cares!" video from YouTube altogether, no doubt because of the predictably bad reaction it received and because of his repeated, bogus statement that the new simulator might not run on a PC. But in answer to his question, EVERYONE cares about the new sim. We're all curious and interested. It may or may not live up to our expectations. But there's no reason for such an embittered attitude about a flight simulator that's not even been released yet.

 

I really don't care a whole lot about it, and I've bought every MS version since 1984.  When it is released, I'll decide.  For myself,  I think introducing a third sim back into the mix has the potential to separate the developer community even more than it is now.  It may well be that P3D and MS will settle into their respective core niches - one being consumer targeted and one being professional and military targeted.  I am also a little skeptical as MS has shown us that they will bail on us as soon as flight sims no longer fit their vision.  I tend to think this is far more about porting it to Xbox users and capturing that market than to serious simmers.  X-Plane is attracting more interest and attracting serious developer attention which is a welcomed trend.  Besides, our world seems to favor two major competitors in most endeavors rather than three. I haven't watched Froogles' video yet, but apparently it is causing a bit of a ruckus.

You may or may not have seen Robert Randazzo's discussion of trying to license FSX technology; a key component being that MS has the right to use new code and features that are subsequently added to their codebase.  I will go out on a limb and say that this will basically be P3D with a few new bells and whistles that will be ported to XBox.  Until then, I'm not going to get too worked up about it.

Jeff Callender

 

 

 

 

Jeff Callender

2 hours ago, jbcallender said:

I really don't care a whole lot about it, and I've bought every MS version since 1984.  When it is released, I'll decide.  For myself,  I think introducing a third sim back into the mix has the potential to separate the developer community even more than it is now.  It may well be that P3D and MS will settle into their respective core niches - one being consumer targeted and one being professional and military targeted.  I am also a little skeptical as MS has shown us that they will bail on us as soon as flight sims no longer fit their vision.  I tend to think this is far more about porting it to Xbox users and capturing that market than to serious simmers.  X-Plane is attracting more interest and attracting serious developer attention which is a welcomed trend.  Besides, our world seems to favor two major competitors in most endeavors rather than three. I haven't watched Froogles' video yet, but apparently it is causing a bit of a ruckus.

You may or may not have seen Robert Randazzo's discussion of trying to license FSX technology; a key component being that MS has the right to use new code and features that are subsequently added to their codebase.  I will go out on a limb and say that this will basically be P3D with a few new bells and whistles that will be ported to XBox.  Until then, I'm not going to get too worked up about it.

Jeff Callender

 

 

 

 

Jeff Callender

P3D with a few new bells and whistles? lmao Even if MS gave us a new sim and left us a few years later, at least it would still be better than the p3d we have now which is ready for retirement. I mean, even when MS abandoned FSX, it was still thriving . 

3 hours ago, TechguyMaxC said:

I have thousands invested in FSX/P3D but I have been dreaming for decades of a sim with the features MS showed off in the recent trailer and will gladly leave the remnants of the past behind.  If you want to be stuck in the past it's your choice.  I'll move forward with the reborn MSFS.

That's just it. I have thousands and thousands into FSX, P3D, X-Plane, DCS, you name it.. I have an add-on addiction 😄

BUT..... technology moves forward very quickly, and at some point, what you have now will be obsolete. I had stacks and stacks of Nintendo games, where are those?? I don't know, maybe my mom put them in the garbage after I stopped playing them when I got a Playstation 1. What about that? Who knows, I got a Playstation 2... Can't tell you where my PS3 is.. I have a PS4 now.. More stacks of games, controllers, downloaded content.. Now they are talking about a PS5 in a year.. 

Records, cassette tapes, mini disks, CD's... Just like FS9, FSX, P3D and now MSFS 2020. On with the new!

1 hour ago, PWJT8D said:

That's just it. I have thousands and thousands into FSX, P3D, X-Plane, DCS, you name it.. I have an add-on addiction 😄

BUT..... technology moves forward very quickly, and at some point, what you have now will be obsolete. I had stacks and stacks of Nintendo games, where are those?? I don't know, maybe my mom put them in the garbage after I stopped playing them when I got a Playstation 1. What about that? Who knows, I got a Playstation 2... Can't tell you where my PS3 is.. I have a PS4 now.. More stacks of games, controllers, downloaded content.. Now they are talking about a PS5 in a year.. 

Records, cassette tapes, mini disks, CD's... Just like FS9, FSX, P3D and now MSFS 2020. On with the new!

there you go ... how can we inject this foward thinking to some parts of our community ?????   if i would of kept all the machines i had built for FS my garage would look like that back of a thrift store ... man im ready to max out another credit card on the new sim .