Quad,A serious question: If Windows 7 was $5 dollars a copy and could be installed multiple times, on multiple machines, would sales of Win 7 increase or decrease, IN YOUR OPINION?

I made it work! I am a techie after all!!Jim, that's a silly question. Let's say it was $35 a copy (instead of over $200 for Ultimate) Yes, I seriously think that "piracy" of that product would decrease as people realised they could buy into it for much less. But again, it's a bad example as, like banks, we don't have a lot of choice with OS's (unless you are a linux beard - sorry, beardist comment; I apologise) MS have kind of bult a rod to beat their own back with. They sell OEM copies for much less and it's preinstalled on 98% of PC's sold, so if I buy anopther PC it will already have W7 on it. If I want to upgrade I can do that much cheaper, but it is still too expensive (but this does not justify piracy) but MS are learning. The next gen of Office products will be much cheaper and "in the cloud". People "rent" them. They can save locally but the softs are not actually on their PC's..another model..who knows if it will work financially but it will sure stop piracy of the product (or will it..?!)

Cool,Please, I addressed Quad with my question because I understood him to mean that one way to fight piracy was to lower the price of software, from his example, make it available for multiple computers, from his example, and hope that there would be fewer pirated/cracked copies.OK Quad, from your own industry: When on-line stores started to sell selections at $XXX and DMA was a part of the system, it gave the general public fits. Then other stores came around and said OK $.99 per song, install it multiple times on multiple devices, do you think that had any effect on the free sharing that had/will be taking place?

As said, Jim, you can post whatever you like and as often you want here. That's your freedom and it only gets in contact with mine when I answer some of your questions or assumptions.Nothing bad to report there, don't worry. :smile:I'm a bit excited about the next "input" from N400QW then. There may be something big coming up.Tried around 10 thread pages now to get some answers but I must admit that the self-revelation statements of his (avoiding answers) are even better at some stages. Keep em coming then!So far, page 9 is my favourite and, at the same time, most impressive page of this thread so far. Not in a very positive way though.

But I also recognise that a huge proportion of pirated - and I mean proper, box and all with logo, MS and other app software comes from parts of the world where paying $200 for anything, let alone a piece of software that allows other software to work (huh? see what they did there?) on a PC that cost two years wages is driving another front on the availability of this stuff...

Jim,I think that only the die hard fan would want to pay $15-$20 for a CD with only 3 good songs in it.If you ask the average consumer, I doubt that they would want to pay for artistically lacking songs. They probably also felt cheated and wanted to get back at the record companies - those greedy ######s. :( Now, at .99, a song is much more desirable. But, take away the right to play it on the computer, the car, the home stereo, the smart phone, and see what happens.BTW, if Lady Gaga & Britney worried about their losses from illegal downloads, they would probably commit suicide. :(

Now, at .99, a song is much more desirable. But, take away the right to play it on the computer, the car, the home stereo, the smart phone, and see what happens.

That's the point, indeed.Sell a nice plane but take away some of the common customer rights and see what happens. A thread like this in the best way and some unknown pirate numbers to come. In between, some valid customers, having to argue about their simple wish to be treated fair and honest, without having to prove their loyalty for the sake of the proving-mechanisms.If it was all a joke, maybe I could laugh about it.The thing to surely smile about are the companies already doing it right of course.I wonder, aren't we running around in circles now?We have three dev minds stating that the old school way of heavy protection is the thing to go for, still and always, because they say so and they know it all while not understanding/being aware of some things in my eyes.We have some customers joining in and stating their viewpoints which don't always compliment (if ever) the three-dev-policy and we have us, being forced to repeat the correct tenor of the thread from time to time while explaining things and viewpoints in extending detail. Had some nice readings there so far. Thanks for that.Had some open minded devs and people in between, showing that they read both sides and then judge about their personal viewpoint.Had quite some readers now, doing the same but remaining silent.That's all there is I think, unless another "funny" thing pops up (although that already happened one is hard to beat).What do you think?

That's the point, indeed.Sell a nice plane but take away some of the common customer rights and see what happens. A thread like this in the best way and some unknown pirate numbers to come. In between, some valid customers, having to argue about their simple wish to be treated fair and honest, without having to prove their loyalty for the sake of the proving-mechanisms.

Yet another interesting intellectual exercise: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/276473-an-interesting-topic/page__p__1719444__hl__the+customer+is+always+right__fromsearch__1#entry1719444 :(

Jim,Now, at .99, a song is much more desirable.

Yes, you are in the industry too! Do you think that the going to .99 and the removal of the DMA restrictions caused a drop in sharing?I don't ask just to ask, but this part of this whole protection/piracy issue has come up before at somewhere along the line by the general population and the suggestion has been: "if you lower the price there will be more purchases/less piracy and you will be happier and so will we." I just wonder if this is true in other industries that battle these same issues.Ron,That's the discussion about the web page that discusses how the customer is not always right, correct?

Ron,That's the discussion about the web page that discusses how the customer is not always right, correct?

Yes sir it it is... http://positiveshari...stomer-service/ :(

Yet another interesting intellectual exercise: http://forum.avsim.n..._1#entry1719444 :(

Please stay on topic, Sir. Seems to be the point with the biggest potential to maybe develop on your side. :( Thanks for practising.

Please stay on topic, Sir. Seems to be the point with the biggest potential to maybe develop on your side. :( Thanks for practising.

Ah, but it would appear that your concerns are indeed addressed, on the topics you've raised, and that your positions are not only not new nor are they"winning":Big Grin:Perhaps your 15 minutes are wearing down...Good day then...:(

When looking at the next attempts of the Sirs ..Yeah, that may close it since 'Lets run away as long as we can' now is the new policy of the gentlemen. Also, that now nag, nag to trigger some emotions is a bit too obvious.No, I won't change threads because you say so.No, I won't stay honest because you tell me to. I'm already honest and with a honest smile, I can report about some very nice views on your very attitude and approach towards things.Not being able to explain, answer or see things isn't a nice character trait and it may be a bad one for your business too. Some guys around tried to help, but your attitude spoiled them. So may it be.It may be a new fact that companies (even yours) rely on customers and not the other way around.As said, that 'it was all a joke!' thing from Mr. Ron Hamilton from Eaglesoft will be one of my favourite and best proves for .. leaving that up to you. I call it a masterpiece and he may call it that way too. I wished I had that ego. :rolleyes:Who could ever paint a clearer picture of despair? In the above post, everyone can read about the picture I'm talking about since the paint hasn't dried yet it seems. There was a huge amount of class showing up in this thread, all sorts of to be precise. Thanks for that and praises to the Companies with the customer focus again. You are doing it right!So, I guess, if not yet another joking thing comes up, I'm looking at some finished 10 pages of thread with a clear tenor. If only three guys are in doubt there, that's ok. Thanks to Avsim for offering this unprotected space for both sides, far away from company forums and rules which don't allow open statements, facts and questions.Setting up a donation now, no kidding. This open space really proved it's existence and the need for it.Edited: donated.

but also, and I have to go to bed :( ..I have a long drive tomorrow, let's keep it on topic and stop this talk of microsoft software. :( We are talking about payware A/C and scenery for the most part. And for the most part it's written by small, independent devs who publish through people like Flight1 etc, and of the most part, it is of a very high standard, and is already quite cheap for what you get - the latest Aerosoft trainer is a case in point. I really value the time and effort all of those people have given to give me this amazing hobby(?) All of that is agreed, and I and many others like me will continue to pay for it, and expect to be treated like the honest people we are, but others won't...and it goes on...another real world example of the cheap vs expensive (last one, honest): I got Orbx demo. I loved it. I knew it was available in total on piratebay. I thought AU$89 was a bit steep. Instead of pirating it, I waited until it was on special (right before the SP4 inc. DVD was released) and bought it for AU$44 (very cheap being that the Aussie dollar is a bit like the peso) This is the other side of the "I can't get it pirated because no-one has cracked it yet and I'm very impatient, and I reaally want it because it rocks so I'll buy it". Both of those sales are genuine sales. The fact that the second one _may_ have resulted in a "lost sale" is irrelevant (they might have thought ORBX was rubbish and not bought it anyway, but FTX released a demo! How enlightened of them. They are company B type of guys (who still frown on piracy, as do we)I do think that $49-69 is too expensive for a payware A/C. It's nearly more expensive than the game it's being played in. I suspect a lot of these costs are for expensive copy protection!I'm not saying that cheap software with unlimited installs is the way to go, but it WILL get you extra sales. How many? You couldn't quantify it any more than you could how many "lost sales" you have due to piracy.

What do you think?

I think you are incapable of admiting that anyone having a viewpoint that is contrary to your black/white (good devs/evil devs) view on the world has a valid argument in any way. I think you use 100 words to make rambling statements most of which make little sense to make a point that could easily be made clearly and concisely with 10. I think your attitude towards copy protection and piracy is about 10 years out of date, and is naive in the extreme. I think you have probably convinced no-one of your cause, although I am sure that there are more people that share your views than have posted here - most of them probably hang out at torrent sites.Well you did ask !!G

There are two rules I've always tried to remember when it comes to dealing with legitimate customers:RULE #1: The customer is always right.RULE #2: If you think the customer is wrong, look at rule #1 again.It's so basic, and often so misunderstood. I'll repeat this one more time. This is a very small community of caring simmers who want the developers to succeed. I honestly believe that most customers are doing the right thing and not helping the cause we all simply abhor.

Rule #1 is not a rule nor a fact. Sorry. No business operates for long under that premise. There is a very careful balance that must be maintained or else 'Rule #1' would put them out of business.As for you thinking "most customers are doing the right thing". I sure wish that were true. I've even caught beta testers giving away products they're beta testing. Sorry, as I've already stated... if people feel they can do something wrong without consequences... they do it. If you catch them, they don't really care either. Because they know there's nothing you can do about it.On an odd aside: Your complaint about having to request, via email, a reactivation of your FS addon has taken far more of your time than the actual time to write said email would have taken. I find it odd that you feel it acceptable to waste so much of your time complaining about something that takes a smidgen of time.