Hi,Some approaches, like ENE4 approach of KJFK, won't take you to the FAF and you will expect ATC vectors you at some point. Base of my understanding (sorry I can't actually test it because of the problem I posted earlier), when you request a IAP approach, the ATC of RC4 will not give you any vectors as you should know how to get to the FAF (which is actually not in these type of approaches). So here is the question, how can I fly those approaches, which need ATC vectors, properly? Thanks

>Hi,>>Some approaches, like ENE4 approach of KJFK, won't take you to>the FAF and you will expect ATC vectors you at some point.As a clarification, the ENE4 (KENNEBUNK FOUR Arrival) is a Standard Terminal Arrival (STAR) procedure, the purpose of which is to get you sequenced with the traffic flow for an approach to the runway(s) that are being used for landing. A STAR is not an approach procedure and therefore does not have an FAF associated with it.An approach procedure is defined for each runway that has NAVAID support to get you in a position to visually acquire the runway and land the aircraft. Each such approach would include an FAF. >Base of my understanding ... when you request a>IAP approach, the ATC of RC4 will not give you any vectors as>you should know how to get to the FAF Correct - you should know how to get to the FAF for the runway that you are assigned to land on. You, the pilot, must have current approaches charts/plates so that you can fly the approach as it is published. In RC4, ATC *trusts* that you will fly it as published.>(which is actually not in these type of approaches). No, the FAF is not in the STAR because it is an arrival procedure, not an approach.>So here is the question, how can>I fly those approaches, which need ATC vectors, properly?1. By default, RC4 does and will vector you into a position where you can intercept the LOC and fly direct to the FAF on runway heading.2. As an option, you can "REQUEST IAP" where RC4 will allow you to fly the approach, as published. Bottom line, the default means that RC4 determines how you get to the FAF and the option allows you to fly it as published. In both cases, you need and should have the current chart in front of you.-michaelRC4 Beta Team

Hi Michael, I understand what you tried to explain, but because I used the wrong terminology, (approach vs arrival), I didn't convey my question well enough.As a result. let me repeat my question again (actually just replace all the "approach" with "arrival" in my question)Some arrival procedures, like ENE4 arrival of KJFK, won't take you to the FAF and you will expect ATC vectors you at some point. (in this case, when you pass ROBER and directing to JFK)>you should know how to get to the FAF for the runway that you are assigned to land on. >You, the pilot, must have current approaches charts/plates so that you can fly the approach as it is publishedso in this case, although I got the arrival and approach chart, I won't know beforehand how to get to the FAF from the last fix on arrival procedure. (because on the arrival chart it says I will be vectored by ATC)So will I get any vector after I passed ROBER in RC4 ATC?Thanks very much and sorry for the confusion! (but I guess I won't mix up those 2 words anymore in my life =D )

>Hi Michael, >>I understand what you tried to explain, but because I used the>wrong terminology, (approach vs arrival), I didn't convey my>question well enough.>>As a result. let me repeat my question again (actually just>replace all the "approach" with "arrival" in my question)Not a problem, getting in sync on the terms is 90% of the problem. The rest is easy! :-)>Some arrival procedures, like ENE4 arrival of KJFK, won't take>you to the FAF and you will expect ATC vectors you at some>point. (in this case, when you pass ROBER and directing to>JFK)Correct. In the real world ATC will vector you as appropriate (they get to define what is appropriate)! ;-)>>you should know how to get to the FAF for the runway that you>are assigned to land on. >>You, the pilot, must have current approaches charts/plates so>that you can fly the approach as it is published>>so in this case, although I got the arrival and approach>chart, I won't know beforehand how to get to the FAF from the>last fix on arrival procedure. (because on the arrival chart>it says I will be vectored by ATC)>>So will I get any vector after I passed ROBER in RC4 ATC?This is where RC4 differs from real world ATC, only because RC4 is not aware of the various fixes and the role they play in flying a particular published approach. Ok. Lets say you are flying the ENE4 to the ILS 22R at KFJK. There are two cases to consider:1. IF you have chosen the option to fly the FULL IAP, then RC4 will assign an altitude and clear you for the ILS 22R approach. You would then fly DIRECT-TO CORVT, intercept the LOC inbound to 22R.2. If you have not chosen the option to fly the FULL IAP, the RC4 will vector you to the 22R LOC using some combination of downwind and base legs.Note that as a general rule, RC4 provides you the option to accept vectors or fly the full IAP when you have contacted Approach. That typically occurs once you are within 40nm of the destination airport. For this example case, RC4 will provide you the option *prior to reaching* ROPER, because ROPER is ~34 nm from KJFK and you will contact approach at ~40nm from KJFK.-michael