I will always distrust someone who says their Ariane add-on is good. I allowed myself to get suckered by a couple posters who were long-standing members of the community into thinking the Ariane 737-700 for FS9 was a great add-on. After much activation trouble, what I got was a slightly better than default 737 and that's it! Sounds were default and incorrect, FMC only imported from FS9 planner and was limited in function, AFDS was very poor and based on default AP logic (trouble with SPD management, poor ILS capture/tracking), FDE was way too touchy and felt a bit like the default Cessna, most of the overhead was not even modeled or operational, odd characters were placed in PFD (pound signs). It was literally the worst add on I've ever seen and the most expensive. I highly doubt much has changed since the newer version have come out. I was given the impression at the time that the EFIS/MAP panel would be a free update, however, you had to pay for it.... a lot. Needless to say, it was off my system in about a week. It had no redeeming qualities.

There's a galley station in the ariane 737, if you hit 'A' on the keyboard a few times you'll get to it. You'll see a fair representation of the real thing in a 737NG and on it there are some switches, try em out. Mostly it does stuff like locking the doors and deploying the airstairs etc, but it also controls the cabin announcements........Al

I discovered that my Ariane model is the basic B737-900ER for FSX, at least one and possibly two versions behind the current release (I purchased in December of 2007 but only now got it re-activated due to a hardware change back then). I may purchase the current release depending on your review, Al. I have also noted the absence of speed/alt constraints in the LEGS menu on the FMC (I can enter them but they are ignored), and am surprised to see them as still being issues in the current release- some 16 months later.Looking very forward to your review :)Thanks, Bruce.

Although its good to see Al wil be doing a review, and I will read it, but its become obvious that this sim in its present state isnt worth bothering with, especially at the price that they ask for it.Maybe in the future it will be worth addressing again when they have patched it and put in all the missing features. But even then I think its going to be slaughtered by PMDG, when they release their 737, based on the screen shots they have just released of their JS41, now thats a VC!So for now it looks like we still only have two developers worth bothering with, PMDG and Level D, although PMDG's lack of support for hardware is leaving them somewhat behind now also.Lets hope the A320's that are set to be released will be a worthwhile purchase.(Before I get flamed I acknowledge the developers like eaglesoft and carrendo, but they not in the same market, I do love their products though for when im not in my commercial mode!)Tis a shame, I was hoping that we could have another option, as its getting very thin on the ground in the FS world latley, something we dont need right now with MS packing up for now.RegardsJames

Wow...what a thread! Sometimes funny, sometimes way over the top, besides a headache I came away with this:Ariane has 2 negatives working against them.Ariane has an activation procedure that is detrimental to their business. Activation shouldn't take 48 minutes, much less 48 hours. It can't be defended with the technology available today and the pricing of their product. Too many other companies get it done. The second problem is their faulty communication policies. Their forum should not be closed to non-owners. Non-owners could be restricted from posting or they should have public and private posting areas like the Citation Mustang forum. I learn a lot about products from company forums. Also, some of their FAQ language is (probably unintentionally) combative. The language seems to ebb and flow from terse to demanding to apologetic, sometimes in the same paragraph. The best thing they could do is hire a customer relations consultant to review their activation and support policies. This would go a long way toward repairing their reputation in the flight sim community.Their 737 seems to be a fine product with some bugs that need to be worked out with service packs (like everyone else). But they shoot themselves in the foot with poor customer access. Just my 2 cents.regards,Thaellar

Wow...what a thread! Sometimes funny, sometimes way over the top, besides a headache I came away with this:Ariane has 2 negatives working against them.Ariane has an activation procedure that is detrimental to their business. Activation shouldn't take 48 minutes, much less 48 hours. It can't be defended with the technology available today and the pricing of their product. Too many other companies get it done. The second problem is their faulty communication policies. Their forum should not be closed to non-owners. Non-owners could be restricted from posting or they should have public and private posting areas like the Citation Mustang forum. I learn a lot about products from company forums. Also, some of their FAQ language is (probably unintentionally) combative. The language seems to ebb and flow from terse to demanding to apologetic, sometimes in the same paragraph. The best thing they could do is hire a customer relations consultant to review their activation and support policies. This would go a long way toward repairing their reputation in the flight sim community.Their 737 seems to be a fine product with some bugs that need to be worked out with service packs (like everyone else). But they shoot themselves in the foot with poor customer access. Just my 2 cents.regards,Thaellar

The activation process may not be liked but I believe every developer has the right to choose whatever type of copy protection they thing is required. Period. While there are never a shortage of complaints about some types of copy protection seldom do you read negative comments about those who pirate. If you don't like it vote with your wallet.There are no communication policy difficulties. If you wish to communicate with them fire up your email, type what you wish to communicate and hit send. They will respond. In this thread others have said the same thing.Re the closed forum.....when level d closed there forum except for one superficial area where no-owners could post I contacted level d, voiced my displeasure and was told politely - too bad.Re cost of products these days: The future is going to be seeing most things on the high side of $100 US. That is just the way it is. And, not just for flight sim things - recently there was a tank sim released and it's price is $125 US. If anyone thinks pmdg is going to give away their new 737 or give a credit for purchasers of their past 737, well, you're dreaming. They put a lot of time and money into producing it and have costs to recover too. I'd like to see things less costly too but that is just not going to happen. I'll bet the 757 if level d ever has one for sale the cost will be on the high side of $100 and I will pay it without complaint as it will be the closest thing to flying the 757 without going out and buying a type rating.As to having a product that is perceived to have bugs in it.....Well, let's keep things in perspective. What we have for our home use is not a $10 million dollar flight simulator built by CAE but something that is still very good, all things considered.

Re the closed forum.....when level d closed there forum except for one superficial area where no-owners could post I contacted level d, voiced my displeasure and was told politely - too bad.

LevelD dont have all forums closed. The still have a genereal discussion forum open for all to visit and ask questions about LevelD and their products prior to buying.http://www.leveldsim.com/forums/LevelD also uses the Flight1 wrapper and you have the option to get a refund if you don't like the product.

LevelD dont have all forums closed. The still have a genereal discussion forum open for all to visit and ask questions about LevelD and their products prior to buying.http://www.leveldsim.com/forums/LevelD also uses the Flight1 wrapper and you have the option to get a refund if you don't like the product.

Good Morning,Flight one is indeed a different type of copy protection but once again each developer has the right to choose what copy protection they will use. Re-installation of your Ariane product on the same computer is not a problem as long as you save the email from them with the authorization. Should you change your computer or make a major hardware change in it i.e. a hard drive then you will have to apply for a new installation. My experience with them goes back 2 years to my first fs9 product and in that time frame I have had no problem getting re-authorization for a new install as required. Before that time I can not comment from personal experience.Re the Level D forums.....here is where non-owners can post but please note that no technical support questions are permitted or will be answered.....you have to be a registered owner for that. I exchanged more than one email with them questioning that policy and was politely told - too bad. That is the was it is......:Level-D General DiscussionGeneral discussion - No technical support is provided here.(this was copy and pasted from their forum site)

Re the Level D forums.....here is where non-owners can post but please note that no technical support questions are permitted or will be answered.....you have to be a registered owner for that. I exchanged more than one email with them questioning that policy and was politely told - too bad. That is the was it is......:Level-D General DiscussionGeneral discussion - No technical support is provided here.(this was copy and pasted from their forum site)

True, but you should actually own the product before you are eligible for technical support! I find reading the public forums very helpful before I make a purchase of any addon. There is a lot of feedback in the Level D public forums, where people ask questions about the product to make informed decisions before they purchase it, for example, I could get feedback from people who own it and the developers, and ask them questions such as "Does VNAV work correctly in its current state and does it respect FMC speed/altitude constraints". And then after I purchase it, if I find its not for me, like I've done with only 1 flight1 aircraft in the past, I can de-activate it and raise a ticket to request a refund. Very good customer service! I own the Level D 767 for FSX and I'm very happy with it and their support. If that was how Ariane worked I'd probably have requested a refund by now and maybe give it another try should this "new FMC" be released in a service pack, I'm stuck with a plane that doesnt work correctly for now though.

Good Morning,Flight one is indeed a different type of copy protection but once again each developer has the right to choose what copy protection they will use. Re-installation of your Ariane product on the same computer is not a problem as long as you save the email from them with the authorization. Should you change your computer or make a major hardware change in it i.e. a hard drive then you will have to apply for a new installation. My experience with them goes back 2 years to my first fs9 product and in that time frame I have had no problem getting re-authorization for a new install as required. Before that time I can not comment from personal experience.Re the Level D forums.....here is where non-owners can post but please note that no technical support questions are permitted or will be answered.....you have to be a registered owner for that. I exchanged more than one email with them questioning that policy and was politely told - too bad. That is the was it is......:Level-D General DiscussionGeneral discussion - No technical support is provided here.(this was copy and pasted from their forum site)

As I said: "... a genereal discussion forum open for all to visit and ask questions about LevelD and their products prior to buying..."I wasn't talking about support. I was talking about pre purchase information from LevelD. That's the main point. Getting correct info about the product BEFORE a purchase. Not about discovering missing features AFTER purchase.Regarding Flight1 - the reactivating of a key is fully automated - Just fill in your purchase data and off you go with an install. No wait for several days. Do work even during hollidays and in the middle of the night :( If Ariane, as stated in the post #1 in this thread, wants to improve their customer relations they have a long way to go. That's my opinion.

Re the Level D forums.....here is where non-owners can post but please note that no technical support questions are permitted or will be answered.....you have to be a registered owner for that. I exchanged more than one email with them questioning that policy and was politely told - too bad. That is the was it is.

Why would you expect tech support questions to be answered on a general discussion forum? The forum is there for prospective buyers to put questions to Support and the Beta team (of which I am one), and for any other topics that fall under the 'general discussion' heading. Many Registered members actively participate and are only too happy to give their opinions, good or bad.If you are a legitimate owner completing the registration process for support, should hardly be considered a major inconvenience. The only people who are inconvenienced are the leech-sucking individuals with their bit torrent copies, who now have to go and find another website to tell them that the LDS767 isn't broken, and you're not supposed to be able to tune the ILS on the glareshield ...

The Flight One Citation Mustang forum is a great model. There is a general forum for asking pre-sale questions about the product and screenshot forums so potential customers can see the panels and exterior shots from the company and from other customers. Once you buy the plane, you get access to support and extra download forums (liveries, etc).Also, on the question of activation. I agree that they can and should have any activation scheme they want to protect their product. That really isn't the issue. The issue is, why does it take so long to get me the key to open the file I paid for. It doesn't make sense, the activation process is already there. I suspect they let the orders pile up and them someone spends a couple hours getting them all out the door. I ordered the C-130 and 727 from Captain Sim the other day and by the time I opened my email program to check my inbox the activation key and download links were there. That's customer service. Pay for a product and then keep having to check over and over for a couple days to see if they have gotten around to sending me my activation? That's unacceptable. It's not like they have to do a background check or fire up some mainframe to create a key. They simply aren't responding to purchasers in a timely fashion.How Ariane chooses to accomplish all that is their business, but if it alienates customers (and a plethora of postings indicates that it does) then it just doesn't make good business sense. I don't hate Ariane. I want them to succeed as they look to have a fine addon. I want all developers to succeed so I can have a mind-boggling number of aircraft and utilities to choose from. It seems that with a few simple changes they could easily move past the "no soup for you" stigma whether deserved or not.Thaellar

The Flight One Citation Mustang forum is a great model. There is a general forum for asking pre-sale questions about the product and screenshot forums so potential customers can see the panels and exterior shots from the company and from other customers. Once you buy the plane, you get access to support and extra download forums (liveries, etc).Also, on the question of activation. I agree that they can and should have any activation scheme they want to protect their product. That really isn't the issue. The issue is, why does it take so long to get me the key to open the file I paid for. It doesn't make sense, the activation process is already there. I suspect they let the orders pile up and them someone spends a couple hours getting them all out the door. I ordered the C-130 and 727 from Captain Sim the other day and by the time I opened my email program to check my inbox the activation key and download links were there. That's customer service. Pay for a product and then keep having to check over and over for a couple days to see if they have gotten around to sending me my activation? That's unacceptable. It's not like they have to do a background check or fire up some mainframe to create a key. They simply aren't responding to purchasers in a timely fashion.How Ariane chooses to accomplish all that is their business, but if it alienates customers (and a plethora of postings indicates that it does) then it just doesn't make good business sense. I don't hate Ariane. I want them to succeed as they look to have a fine addon. I want all developers to succeed so I can have a mind-boggling number of aircraft and utilities to choose from. It seems that with a few simple changes they could easily move past the "no soup for you" stigma whether deserved or not.Thaellar

Couldnt agree more....The Present Ariane activation is more likely to increase piracy than decrease it, why wait for days, weeks, or in some cases on this forum years(for reactivation) when it can be downloaded and installed and running in minutes.! Having a protected forum for purchasers only is fine, just like the levelD, but there should be a general forum for perspective buyers. You cant even download the manuals before hand to be able to read through to see if the product will do as you want, so you are stuck with reading a sometimes confusing website, with no where to really go ask questions or find the information out, its already been shown by this forum, that what the website inferrs and what is the case is arent quite the same. Again PMDG and LevelD let you download manuals to read before hand. I know there was the case that someone was trying to sell the manuals, but why does not having them to download actually prevent this? again pirated version, or even buying it then selling them on is still possible?

Re cost of products these days: The future is going to be seeing most things on the high side of $100 US. That is just the way it is. And, not just for flight sim things - recently there was a tank sim released and it's price is $125 US. If anyone thinks pmdg is going to give away their new 737 or give a credit for purchasers of their past 737, well, you're dreaming. They put a lot of time and money into producing it and have costs to recover too. I'd like to see things less costly too but that is just not going to happen. I'll bet the 757 if level d ever has one for sale the cost will be on the high side of $100 and I will pay it without complaint as it will be the closest thing to flying the 757 without going out and buying a type rating.As to having a product that is perceived to have bugs in it.....Well, let's keep things in perspective. What we have for our home use is not a $10 million dollar flight simulator built by CAE but something that is still very good, all things considered

I think you missing the point again that as been stated over and over again in this forum by many, cost isnt the issue, admittely we'd all love things to be cheaper, but Value for money is what people are claiming here. You mention the possible cost of LevelD757 and PMDG 737, and quite correctly they probably wont be cheap, but they WILL contain more than the Ariane does now. In fact the Ariane doesnt contain the functionality of the present LevelD767 and PMDG 737 for a higher price than those cost to buy. Peoples anger at having to shell out the 69.99 for the X2 version from the X1 isnt about it being just cus its another 737 its because the difference's that the X2 brought are meagre and its still unfinished, not just bugs but actually missing components. The PMDG737 isnt a patch its a whole new sim, that will contain a lot more than just a Patch for the old one, the same cant be really said of the Ariane x2 version. Basically if it contained what it should then the 69.99 price tag wouldnt be a problem at all. In fact I'd go as far as saying from the time I've had at having a go with it, although some nice features to it, mainly Eyecandy and external features like GPU etc. I'd say that it isnt worth buying full stop whatever the price, it just doesnt come up to the standard of the other sims on the market.I am dissapointed that it doesnt, and I hope that the work that Ariane suggest they are doing to make it better continues, and that at some point it does become a worthwhile purchase, the more developers the better. But if they dont then perhaps they should accept the sim is not upto par with others and should be priced to reflect such, allowing the more casual user to purchase it. But the more casual user will be even more frustrated by the Activation system, are more likely to need support, so again Ariane needs to address these issues.Regardless of the attitudes of some people and previous experience etc, which may be making some people post in a negative way, this forum surely has to show that there is a massive interest in a 737 addon, that people actually want to buy one, and that even the most negative of posters in here, would be champing at the bit to buy it if it was the all singing, dancing sim it claims to be. Ariane have a great opportunity to make a lot of money, to make a lot of people happy, )even if they wouldnt admit it on here) but this forum as shown, by all the constructive posts that at present the Ariane 737 X2 isnt good enough.....Yet.RegardsJames

Here's an interesting thing I found out during my investigations into the FMC capabilities of the Ariane 737. What prompted this was the fact that VNAV 'is not fully supported' on the Ariane 737, and me looking into just how much that would affect 'doing things properly'.Now, Ariane have claimed they are fixing this aspect of the their 737, but added that in surveys with 737 pilots, a very high percentage of them do not use VNAV for descent, instead using LVL CHANGE and following what is in the FMC for guidance. Initially I thought: 'well they would say that if their model doesn't do it the other way, wouldn't they?'But, apparently it is true, and not always by choice either. Here's why: the ETOPs ruling for the 737 states that 'The use of LNAV or VNAV during QFE operations is prohibited' (that's the FAA and JAR ETOPs saying that, not Ariane by the way). The reason for that ETOPs ruling is because a lot of the FMC database information (on the real aircraft) is referenced at MSL, so if you use VNAV for the descent, it can lead to navigational and timing errors when you have set QFE on the altimeter. I'm not sure why that would affect LNAV, other than for the timing aspect of a descent to an incorrect reference, but it is nevertheless also prohibited.Of course none of this is an excuse for not putting the capability to do so in the Ariane 737, but it does at least lend some credence to Ariane's claim of how most pilots do (or at least should do) things on the 737.The stuff you find out when you start reading manuals for the actual aircraft eh?Al

Here's an interesting thing I found out during my investigations into the FMC capabilities of the Ariane 737. What prompted this was the fact that VNAV 'is not fully supported' on the Ariane 737, and me looking into just how much that would affect 'doing things properly'.Now, Ariane have claimed they are fixing this aspect of the their 737, but added that in surveys with 737 pilots, a very high percentage of them do not use VNAV for descent, instead using LVL CHANGE and following what is in the FMC for guidance. Initially I thought: 'well they would say that if their model doesn't do it the other way, wouldn't they?'But, apparently it is true, and not always by choice either. Here's why: the ETOPs ruling for the 737 states that 'The use of LNAV or VNAV during QFE operations is prohibited' (that's the FAA and JAR ETOPs saying that, not Ariane by the way). The reason for that ETOPs ruling is because a lot of the FMC database information (on the real aircraft) is referenced at MSL, so if you use VNAV for the descent, it can lead to navigational and timing errors when you have set QFE on the altimeter. I'm not sure why that would affect LNAV, other than for the timing aspect of a descent to an incorrect reference, but it is nevertheless also prohibited.Of course none of this is an excuse for not putting the capability to do so in the Ariane 737, but it does at least lend some credence to Ariane's claim of how most pilots do (or at least should do) things on the 737.The stuff you find out when you start reading manuals for the actual aircraft eh?Al

This is a good point, especially because when I fly many of the aircraft using "fully functional" FMC 's on FSX I don't use ATC at all, I would find it difficult to keep altering the FMC based on new ATC commands. I know the rules on this vary from aircraft to aircraft such as changing from VNAV to LVL CHANGE below 10000ft.

Here's an interesting thing I found out during my investigations into the FMC capabilities of the Ariane 737. What prompted this was the fact that VNAV 'is not fully supported' on the Ariane 737, and me looking into just how much that would affect 'doing things properly'.Now, Ariane have claimed they are fixing this aspect of the their 737, but added that in surveys with 737 pilots, a very high percentage of them do not use VNAV for descent, instead using LVL CHANGE and following what is in the FMC for guidance. Initially I thought: 'well they would say that if their model doesn't do it the other way, wouldn't they?'But, apparently it is true, and not always by choice either. Here's why: the ETOPs ruling for the 737 states that 'The use of LNAV or VNAV during QFE operations is prohibited' (that's the FAA and JAR ETOPs saying that, not Ariane by the way). The reason for that ETOPs ruling is because a lot of the FMC database information (on the real aircraft) is referenced at MSL, so if you use VNAV for the descent, it can lead to navigational and timing errors when you have set QFE on the altimeter. I'm not sure why that would affect LNAV, other than for the timing aspect of a descent to an incorrect reference, but it is nevertheless also prohibited.Of course none of this is an excuse for not putting the capability to do so in the Ariane 737, but it does at least lend some credence to Ariane's claim of how most pilots do (or at least should do) things on the 737.The stuff you find out when you start reading manuals for the actual aircraft eh?Al

Al,I'm not sure what your point is. Do you mean that if something is seldom used or happen in reality, then it is ok not to implement it in the simulation? But it's ok to still ok for the developer to advertise the aircraft as advanced? What about failure scheduling? What about fuel dump? What about engine fire extinguishers? What about RTO?

Of course none of this is an excuse for not putting the capability to do so in the Ariane 737, but it does at least lend some credence to Ariane's claim of how most pilots do (or at least should do) things on the 737.

Oh, I see. The post is about credibility of Ariane. That's your point. IMO Ariane have to do a lot more than that to increase their credibility. VNAV not working in the Ariane model and now we see why - pilots don't use VNAV. The Ariane aircraft doesn't simulate an aircraft, it simulates the pilots use of it. I see. I think that kind of simulations should be implemented in co-pilot add ons and not in aircraft add ons.VNAV not implemented in an "advanced" aircraft add on is a flaw. But this is only my opinion.