Hi,I learned in J3 at Van Nuys airport in 1968 and the instructor really pushed this. Now after two people have tolld me no, I now wish I knew why why he stressed this to me.

Part of the reason we have the T-38 in the first place is to teach guys the differences between low performance and high performance aircraft flight characteristics. The T-38 is turned by banking and loading up the wing to use the horizontal component of lift to turn the plane. There's very little adverse yaw produced by those stubby wings, so rudder isn't really needed to coordinate the turn. A low performance plane produces adverse yaw in a turn, so rudder is important to coordinate the turn. So your J-3 IP wasn't wrong...different plane, different rules. On the other end of the spectrum, try flying a sailplane without LOTS of rudder. Those long wings produce a lot of adverse yaw.Now that said, I did use small rudder inputs to make small heading changes during instrument approach work...the rudder is an effective way of effecting small changes of a few degrees at a time such as you might get on a PAR final.

Well I sure wasnt doing instrument work LOL. In fact back then you just flew where ever you wanted. I remember talking to the tower and saying "Good morning this is Piper 631, I am abeam the tower and request landing 16 right over." Geez, how simple it was back then.Bob

Part of the reason we have the T-38 in the first place is to teach guys the differences between low performance and high performance aircraft flight characteristics. The T-38 is turned by banking and loading up the wing to use the horizontal component of lift to turn the plane. There's very little adverse yaw produced by those stubby wings, so rudder isn't really needed to coordinate the turn. A low performance plane produces adverse yaw in a turn, so rudder is important to coordinate the turn. So your J-3 IP wasn't wrong...different plane, different rules. On the other end of the spectrum, try flying a sailplane without LOTS of rudder. Those long wings produce a lot of adverse yaw.Now that said, I did use small rudder inputs to make small heading changes during instrument approach work...the rudder is an effective way of effecting small changes of a few degrees at a time such as you might get on a PAR final.

You know, come to think of it I am "getting" old. Geez did it go by fast. That is why I like to delve into this hobby as it is so interesting with all the new planes and addons. This little t38 is really a handful I must say. Even with all the button assignments, TrackIR, EZDOK. I find mySA is really suffering on approach. I still have not flown an A/C yet where I have been able to land where I am supposed to when trying to fly an ILS by manually. Even though it seems I am spot on, I am always off and sometimes quite a bit. I have been trying to maintain speed and do an ILS and it is really really hard.Bob

Maybe it's becuz we're old? I learned in 1963 at Brackett in La Verne and ALL my CFI's had me apply a little rudder for *minor* corrections, as necessary. I would venture a guess that it's one of those things that are "user optional" depending on a/c and how you learned to fly. Most GA aircraft would not have issues with that technique.VicI have to agree also, Ed. He seems to have a hidden agenda - even his *apology* had double meaning barbs in it.Vic

Bob,Very interesting that you used the rudder to make small corrections on localizer during an IAP. I wondered if T-38 pilots did that. It is certainly a technique I have used since day one in all the GA aircraft I have flown and it works very well. I also use it to make very fine corrections to runway centerline.Even though I did not think it was done in real life T-38 flight, I found myself simply out of force of habit doing that in the MilViz T-38A and found that it did work just about as well. I just stayed quiet about doing that since I figured it might be a negative transfer of technique from GA to T-38. Now, having read your comments, I realize that, in fact, it was a positive transfer.Cheers,Ken

Ken, I posted that about what I was taught in 1968 and many came back and said no. Then I began questioning why the instructor stressed that. Then, many have come forward and said "Yes" it is still done that way. Did Orville and Wilber have rudder?Bob

Bob,Very interesting that you used the rudder to make small corrections on localizer during an IAP. I wondered if T-38 pilots did that. It is certainly a technique I have used since day one in all the GA aircraft I have flown and it works very well. I also use it to make very fine corrections to runway centerline.Even though I did not think it was done in real life T-38 flight, I found myself simply out of force of habit doing that in the MilViz T-38A and found that it did work just about as well. I just stayed quiet about doing that since I figured it might be a negative transfer of technique from GA to T-38. Now, having read your comments, I realize that, in fact, it was a positive transfer.Cheers,Ken

Bob,Very interesting that you used the rudder to make small corrections on localizer during an IAP. I wondered if T-38 pilots did that. It is certainly a technique I have used since day one in all the GA aircraft I have flown and it works very well. I also use it to make very fine corrections to runway centerline.Even though I did not think it was done in real life T-38 flight, I found myself simply out of force of habit doing that in the MilViz T-38A and found that it did work just about as well. I just stayed quiet about doing that since I figured it might be a negative transfer of technique from GA to T-38. Now, having read your comments, I realize that, in fact, it was a positive transfer.Cheers,Ken

Hi Ken,When I started this thread I had no idea it would devolve as it has. I apologize. As I have your Cessna 310 product and saw Milviz make all the corrections us users asked for, I am confident the same will happen with this product. BTW, "negative transfer" and "positive transfer" are CFI speak that I recognize from my past. Haven't heard those terms in years.Take care,Bill

I am one of the "real world" T-38A beta tester pilots. For the hundreds of hours of flying profiles, building and submitting spreadsheets of the various test results, and later flying Alpha, 1,2 3,4 then Beta a, b,... I received my very own FREE copy of the final product. I am well satisfied with the bargain. I would like to offer my view of what you will get when you spend your money to purchase the Milviz T-38A. You will receive an airplane that will give you as close to a real experience of what it is like to fly the T-38 that is possible in a simulator like FSX. I have had a love affair with the T-38 since the my "Boom" or "Dollar Ride" (as it was called in my days). I have spent thousands of dollars on building a full size cockpit which contains a full size control stick and realistic controls. Almost every switch in the T-38 is duplicated and functions. I flew the T-38 testing in that cockpit. I also flew it on a second computer with a CH Products joystick, rudders and throttle. The feel was totally different between the two set ups. However, there were moments when I felt I was back in the cockpit of the real T-38. I believe the fidelity to the actual bird is that good.Col. Scott offered a good punch list of items which he felt were less than perfect. Colin (Milviz) has already said that we will fix what we can. Some of the items on Col Scott's list were flagged and mentioned by myself and the other T-38 pilot as well at a couple of the airline pilots on the team. They were discussed and the programmers attempted to get them closer to what we felt were more realistic. In some cases we did have to settle or less than we wanted. Often a fix broke something else. The drag is one such example. We struggled to get the proper drag ratios for both altitude and a low level in the pattern. Many times one adjustment caused something else to go south. In the end we all settled for something less than we wanted. However, again, the fidelity to the real airplane is very good.Other items like the sound levels of the buffet and AOA sensitivity were both a mixture of compromise and building for the average consumer. I mentioned earlier that I flew the T-38 with both a basic setup and with the high end expensive cockpit simulator. I did this because I knew most people would be experiencing this aircraft through their six inch tall joystick and 19" monitor. We had to make the aircraft fly realistically in this arena. I also wanted to get it to fly well using a full length stick, bass shakers and projector setup. I wanted the most realistic possible T-38 possible. I wanted this for myself. :) I believe we did just that and more. In all simulation and virtual realities there is something called, "Suspense of Disbelief." Suspense of disbelief is the ability to forget you are in your world and feel as if you are in the virtual world. This airplane does that for me. Flying an overhead approach from the break, through the final to landing is as close to real as I have seen in an FSX airplane. More than once, I found myself smiling. I hope our efforts will allow each of you to feel the same.If you are on the fence about buying this airplane. If you feel that some of the minor items (and they are minor) Col Scott pointed out make this aircraft not worth the money, try it and see. If you use Flight 1 you have a 30 day return. I am willing to bet that very few of you will return the plane. If you do buy it you will see just why 50,000 plus USAF pilots called the T-38A the "White Rocket."