Rather than keep on beating the same old drum in this forum there are some remedies that people can take in the UK if they consider that any company is acting illegally or improperly.If you believe that a company is continuing to trade when it is no longer entitled to then contact Companies House about this.If you believe that a product being sold is not the same as the description being offered then contact your local Standards Trading Officer who will investigate the matter and take measures to stop this if appropriate.If you believe that any business or company is offering goods or products which have been stolen in any way then contact the Fraud Squad.So, for anyone who has a grievance about any business or company don't moan about it - take action. Any of the above actions won't cost you a penny, so you have no excuse.David

DavidYou're right of course and as far as I have been (reliably) informed, most of your suggestions were acted upon some time ago. I have every confidence in the 'powers that be' to investigate and act on their findings appropriately.The purpose of people 'beating the same old drum' in the forum, as you put it, is to act as a warning to those who may not know the background to this fiasco and may well lose out as a result.For those who have seen or read all this all before, apologies for boring you with it. However, if you are a 'newcomer' to the hobby or to the forum, 'fore-warned is fore-armed'Toni.

ToniFair points, I agree, but I think the Papa Tango, World Air Simulations, Ariane stuff has been well and truly aired now. How much longer must we go on warning any newcomers to the hobby?I am sure we could all think of some other products which have not been worth paying for and which we could warn others about, but we don't.Time, I think, to let this matter rest and move on.David

David,"Time, I think, to let this matter rest and move on"Yes, in theory David you are correct in both this comment and your saying about other products. However although other products may well have been "not very good" We dont read of people being decieved, developers robbed and other relevant points.For as long as Tishma and cronies are around, the long term harm and damage he will reap is worth the effort of "banging the drum". It is in the end "our" hobby not the cash cow, Tishma thinks is his and his alone by any means. Think what effect his attempt to register the trademark "simulation" would have had ?George

DavidI almost agree with you, but not quite.Surely the time to 'let the matter rest and move on' is when Ariane has been shut down so others CANNOT be duped...(BTW, no-one forces those who are 'bored' with this to open the thread and read the comments - if this is of no interest to you, simply ignore messages with Peter Tishma, Ariane, Corporate Worlwide, World Air Sim, Katie Dyson, George Doxey, Papa Tango, PT, WAS etc. in the subject title!!!)Toni

If the products are still on the shelves then there are still people who may purchase the rubbish & keep the "perps" in business. Personally I would rather know in advance that, inside those flashy boxes lies poor quality software rather than have to try and get my money back at a later date.People join this community all the time - presumably they deserve the same warning the rest of us have had !!!!

...couldn't agree more. Keep spreading the word...Toni.

Well, my last word on the matter is this.The word has been spread as long as I have been involved in flight simulation - which is quite a long time now - and what has it achieved? Apparantly not what others would have wished for.I have nothing for or against Mr Tishma but I would say this. If you really want someone to go away then just ignore them - they don't like that. Otherwise, keep giving them the oxygen of publicity.I really can't understand why Tom Allensworth keeps giving bandwidth to threads on this subject.Best wishes to all.David